Little, Patrick J.Wednesday, 25 February 1931 |
Dáil Éireann Debate
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Public Business. - Betting Bill, 1930—Committee Stage (Resumed).
I would like to draw the Minister's attention to the fact that apart from our having discussed the principle which runs through the Bill we must also pay attention to the particular clauses where the ...
May I point out that this particular clause deals with the penalties which the person who has no licence would incur for betting at a street corner? It is a thing which would come under the notice of...
Does the Deputy hold that the proper person to exercise a power of judgment in this case should be the Revenue Commissioners? That is the issue.
The words of Article 64 of the Constitution are: “The judicial power of the Irish Free State shall be exercised and justice administered in the public courts established by the Oireachtas by judges a...
There is always the prerogative of mercy, which is not in any way analogous to the power of the Revenue Commissioners. The prerogative of mercy is there and must be there. It is embodied in the Stat...
I move the following amendment:— In sub-section (1), lines 19 and 22, to delete the words “superintendent of the Gárda Síochána,” and substitute the words “District Justice” in each line.
The way in which an unfair influence is brought to bear by having this power in the hands of the superintendent of the Gárda is this: A man makes an application for a licence and the superintendent re...
I move:— In sub-section (1), line 48, after the word “resident” to insert the words “in Ireland but.” This amendment enables a certificate of personal fitness to be issued to a person who is resident ...
I have not set that out.
Does the Deputy contend that the Six Counties are inside the jurisdiction of Saorstát Eireann?
If he does I am quite satisfied. Until that time comes we have, unfortunately, to make a distinction.
I would like to point out that this is a new clause. It was not in the old Act. Under the old Act they were all excluded. We are doing no one a great injury.
The present position is that for four years they have been excluded, and no great damage or injury has been done by continuing to exclude them. I do not see why we should legislate for people who are...
He will come in as a licensed one now.
Perhaps if I do not move the amendment now the Minister may consider the matter and give me an opportunity on the Report Stage.
I would prefer to withdraw the amendment now with power later on to move it on the Report Stage. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
I move amendment 12:— In sub-section (1), line 51, to delete the words “Minister for Justice” and substitute the words “District Justice for the Dublin Metropolitan District,” and in sub-section (3), ...
If any man comes from across Channel it would be obvious that he would make his application in Dublin first. It is the most central position, and he would have greater information here about things o...
I do not think it is clear in the Act that the licence has to be renewed at the end of the year.
Then it is by implication. It must be in some Finance Act.
I move:— In line 13, at the end of paragraph (b), to add the words “or been convicted of an offence under the Street Betting Act, 1906, or in relation to the advertisement of betting whether under the...
What about the Act of 1874, which is to be read as one with the Act of 1853? A good deal of the Act of 1853 is gone because, of course, the houses are now licensed. At the same time, the Act of 1874...
With that assurance, I withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
I move:— In paragraph (i), line 38, before the word “cause” to insert the word “permit.” The object is to tighten up the clause a little so as to throw the onus of proof on the bookmaker that he has n...
I see that difficulty, but would the Minister consider if the section was so worded as to permit to loiter in the premises or to cause to loiter in or outside the premises.
I take it the Minister is not against the principle?
Then it is a question of wording. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
I move:— At the end of paragraph (j), line 44, to add the words “or for a person with no licence.” I think this fills a gap which requires to be filled up here. It really is to add at the end of sub-...
A man might get in for a year or two as a man of straw acting for somebody else outside unless you put in acting for a person without any licence.
I move: To add at the end of the section a new paragraph as follows: “that the applicant is the holder of a pawn office licence or a moneylender's licence.”
I think there is a very strong case as the Minister has put it. You come across a case where money has been lent particularly for the purposes of betting. It is the worst type of moneylending. This ...
I will accept the Minister's alteration of the amendment.
I move amendment 19:— In sub-section (4), line 64, after the word “name” to insert the words “and place of residence.” This is simply in reference to the issue of a bookmaker's licence to include as w...
I move: To add at the end of the section a new sub-section as follows: “The Revenue Commissioners shall forward a copy of such relevant portions of the register to the Clerk of the proper District Cou...
No, because if the other amendments had been carried, the District Court records would then show everything as to the people who would have got certificates. This is a case where the matter is in the...
I will leave it over for consideration.
Quite right. I wish I did.
I move amendment 21:— In sub-section (1), lines 37-38, to delete the words “superintendent of the Gárda Síochána” and substitute the words “District Justice.”
It is similar, but it applies to the suitability of the premises, and the arguments which I offered before hold good now. The Minister seems to be adamant on the question, and it appears that we will...
The Bill in another part meets this difficulty, because it extinguishes licences of bookmakers when anything happens to the person. When a person parts with the premises the licence is extinguished a...
I move amendment 23:
I beg to move amendment 24:— Before paragraph (f) to insert a new paragraph as follows: “that the annual rateable value where the premises are situated within the Dublin Metropolitan District is less ...
This amendment goes with the section relating to the annual valuation. This supplies the machinery for getting the shop valued separately from the rest of the premises. Its real aim is to try to pre...
There are other sections which serve the purpose the Deputy has in mind. There are other sections in the Bill which deal with the desirability of premises. I do not think that one could deal with th...
Quite so, but is it not clear that portion of this Bill relates to a residential area, a place where workers reside? Unfortunately, a great many of the workers reside in the slums.
I will refer Deputy Anthony to paragraph (c) of Section 11. If he reads the Bill he will see that one of the grounds for refusing a licence because of unsuitability of premises is that the premises a...
I move amendment 25:— In paragraph (i), line 40, before the word “cause” to insert the words “permit to loiter in.”
I move amendment 26:— To delete paragraph (1) and substitute the following paragraph: “that the applicant is the holder of a liquor licence, a pawn office licence or a moneylender's licence.”
Does the Minister accept amendment 26?
The trouble one experiences in connection with this Bill and the amendments is that unless one goes back and reads the report of the Commission it is impossible to get the proper meaning of sections o...
I take it the Minister is more or less in agreement with it?
The practice, I understood, was that a good deal of betting used to be carried on long ago from the publichouse.
He would be making enough money out of his other business.
Am I to take it that I am defeated on the amendment?
I move:— To add at the end of the section a new paragraph as follows:— That the premises are not fronting on a public thoroughfare and are not structurally separated from any other premises. This amen...
These are not speakeasies.
Very well, I will leave it an open question and withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Question—“That Section 11, as amended, stand part of the Bill”—put and agreed to. Sections 12, 1...
I move:— In sub-section (2), line 37, after the word “such” where it first occurs, to insert the words “or any other.”
In regard to Section 17 and in reference to the term “joint proprietors,” I notice that there is a definition which makes a man a joint proprietor. If there are several people who are joint proprieto...
I move:— To add at the end of the section a new sub-section as follows:— “The registered proprietor shall not allow newspapers containing lists of horses nor other lists of horses to be displayed in s...
The person coming in to bet must have his party list with him. One of the causes of loitering is the display of newspapers which those inside consult before making their bets. It is only when they go ...
He could buy the newspaper outside.
If they bring in newspapers and hand them about it will not cause loitering. It is these newspapers hanging in the shops which cause loitering.
Very well.
I move: In sub-section (1), line 2, to delete the word “eighteen” and substitute the word “twenty-one.” This amendment has for its object the raising of the age from 18 to 21 on the ground that it is ...
It is very difficult to fix an age at which you can enforce the law, but still I am inclined to think that as between the ages of 18 and 21 it is just as easy to enforce it up to 21 as it is up to 18....
What weighed with me in the matter is the fact that boys, when they come to 21, are earning a little money. It is more a town problem than a country problem. At that age boys have more money and mor...
As the Minister is improving legislation I think he might improve the grammar. There is no such word as “lesser.”
A legal monstrosity. Section 22 agreed to.
I move:— At the end of sub-section (2) to insert the words “For the purposes of this sub-section any member of the Gárda Síochána or any officer of the customs and excise must obtain a warrant in the ...
In view of the Minister's undertaking to reconsider the matter, I am willing to withdraw the amendment for the time being, with the power of reintroducing it on the Report Stage. I would remind the M...
Does the Minister not think that it would be wise to consider, on the Report Stage, that anybody who is in the position of a manager of a premises should have a licence? A person may have multiple sh...
I move: In sub-section (1), after the word “loiters,” line 3, to insert the words “inside or.” Perhaps the Minister will consider this amendment.
I move: To add at the end of the section, line 19, the words “Any person causing or inducing any person under the age of twenty-one years to commit an offence under this section shall be liable to the...
It would be better to accept it now and change the age from 21 to 18.
I beg to move:— To add at the end of the section a new sub-section as follows: “All such regulations shall be laid upon the Table of each House of the Oireachtas as soon as may be after it is made, fo...
I am glad that Deputy Hogan (Clare) has come into the House, as it was he that had a grievance in connection with this matter. He put down a motion for the discussion of certain prescribed rules, and ...
It was not entered as a Standing Order.
I shall not press the matter further then. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Section 33 agreed to. Sections 34, 35 and 36 ordered to stand part of the Bill. SCHEDULE—(ENACTMENTS REPEALED).
I move: To delete the words and figures:
I have the Act here, and it says: “any person in the United Kingdom who writes, prints, publishes or circulates any advertisement, circular or coupon.” I suggest that that Act should be amended but n...
Does the Minister not recognise that it opens up the gates to other kinds of advertisements as well as for bets on football matches?
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