Roddy, Martin

Wednesday, 11 March 1931

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 37 No. 11

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Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Construction of Bog Roads in Ardara (Donegal).

A petition was received signed by a large number of residents in the Ardara District asking for the construction of a road at Ranny (Tullycleave). The construction of this road has been undertaken out...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Construction of Road to Landing Place at Carraroe, Galway.

Representations have been received with reference to the construction of a road through Ross Island, and the matter is at present being investigated.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Division of Clifden Lands.

The lands to which the Deputy refers comprise 39 acres of the townland of Kingstown Glebe or Ballymaconry, on the Estate of Sir Christopher R. Lighton and Another which is the subject of proceedings ...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Acquisition of Trant Estate, Temple more, Tipperary.

The Land Commission have acquired on the Estate of Captain Trant 175 acres in the townland of Ballybristy, 182 acres in the townland of Killahara and 62 acres in the townland of Dovea Lower. A scheme...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Acquisition of Purefoy Estate, Tipperary.

The Land Commission have under consideration the question of the acquisition of the lands at Greenfields, the property of the late Mr. W.B. Purefoy, and the matter will be expedited as much as possibl...More Button

No.More Button

Yes.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Murray and Tandy Estates (Co. Meath).

If the lands on the Murray Estate, to which the Deputy refers, are those of Moygrehan Lower, the Land Commission have had them inspected, and the question of their acquisition is under consideration. ...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - McVeagh Estate, Athboy (Meath).

The Deputy appears to refer to the holding of Major McVeagh, containing 52 acres in the townland of Drewstown Little on the Estate of W. L. Naper, which is the subject of proceedings under the Land Ac...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Relief Grants in Mayo.

A list of the works undertaken or about to be undertaken by the Land Commission under the Relief Schemes Vote in Co. Mayo is being prepared and will be sent to the Deputy.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Drumconora Lands, Ennis.

The Land Commission do not propose to take any action at present regarding the acquisition of the land to which the Deputy refers.More Button

The area of the land is very small, about 200 acres, and the valuation of the house is £45 15s., so I think it should be quite clear to the Deputy that if we acquired that land the major portion of it...More Button

Not at the moment.More Button

No.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Lawless Estate Lands, Newtown (Co. Kilkenny).

A scheme for the division of the lands of Newtown on the estate of Reps. of Elizabeth Lawless is in course of preparation, but until this scheme has been completed and approved the Land Commission wi...More Button

I am afraid that the Deputy is rather exaggerating.More Button

It is only two months.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Relief Grants in Kerry.

A list of the works undertaken or about to be undertaken by the Land Commission in County Kerry under the Relief Schemes Vote is being prepared and will be sent to the Deputy.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Expenditure by Land Commission in Kerry.

Works have been or are about to be undertaken in County Kerry—the estimated total cost of which amounts to £4,550—out of moneys provided by the Relief Schemes Vote. A list of these works is being pre...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Relief Grants in Donegal.

A list of the works undertaken or about to be undertaken by the Land Commission in County Donegal under the Relief Schemes Vote is being prepared and will be sent to the Deputy.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Porter Estate, Burt, Donegal.

The estate to which the Deputy refers is apparently the holding of Mr. Robert Edwards, comprising about 243 acres of the lands of Mulleny, which he holds, subject to a Land Purchase annuity. It is at...More Button

I explained that the lands are subject to a Land Commission annuity, and it is very unlikely that the Land Commission will be able to acquire them.More Button

No, fee simple.More Button

Issue Out of the Central Fund. - Land Bill, 1930—Third Stage.

I think Deputy Derrig is to a very large extent beating the air. This section does not refer at all to the present Bill. It refers to the Act of 1929, and it is merely an effort to bring the Act of ...More Button

It has not arisen, but it may arise, and the Oireachtas must make provision for contingencies of that kind.More Button

How does the Deputy suggest that the removal of Section 1 would affect the guarantee?More Button

No.More Button

No.More Button

The Deputy knows that the removal of this section would not affect the guarantee of Land Bonds at all. The Act of 1929 still operates. The section is introduced, as I tried to explain to the House, f...More Button

This section only refers to the Act of 1929.More Button

The Deputy need not be in the least suspicious about any ulterior motive whatsoever.More Button

This section does not give any relief to the vendor. It is required primarily for the purpose of enabling the Land Commission to pay the stamp duty on mortgage deeds which are necessary to obtain in ...More Button

It applies also to certain other documents in cases where the tenant enters into an agreement with the Land Commission to purchase for cash.More Button

Yes, and it does not propose to confer any benefit on the vendor. Question—“That Section 2 stand part of the Bill”—put and agreed to. SECTION 3. (1) Sub-section (3) of Section 1 of the Land Act, 1923...More Button

It removes the necessity for the immediate redemption of land bonds paid over by the Land Commission to the Minister for Finance in respect of death duties. Under the Land Bond Act the Minister is ob...More Button

In what direction?More Button

No, that is a different matter. It is outside the scope of the land code.More Button

It provides for setting aside moneys in that fund under the Land Act. It is purely a domestic and financial arrangement.More Button

I explained a few moments ago in answer to Deputy MacEntee that sub-section (2) was consequential on sub-section (1). It merely establishes machinery for setting aside in the land bond fund moneys pa...More Button

Yes. Section put and agreed to. SECTION 4—SUB-SECTION (1). (1) Every advance made by the Land Commission after the passing of this Act on the resale of land (other than land to which the next followi...More Button

The rate of interest in all these cases is 3¼ per cent. I am prepared to accept the Deputy's amendment, but not in this particular form. As a matter of fact, the sub-section is worded in accordance...More Button

Sub-section (3) refers to moneys spent by the Congested Districts Board out of its own funds, and if the Deputy will look up the Land Commission Estimates he will see that each year these moneys come ...More Button

I am only dealing now with this sub-section.More Button

I think the Deputy is running ahead and dealing with other sections of the Bill.More Button

I do not see how that arises under this particular section. The price at which land is being purchased is not a matter which can be discussed here.More Button

Improvements are paid for in the congested districts areas by means of free grants in practically all cases. Question put and agreed to. SECTION 5. (1) All moneys, funds, and land bonds which are now...More Button

The section really fills a blank in the Land Law Commission Act. By Section 7 of that Act all the property of the old Congested Districts Board was transferred to the Land Commission but there was no...More Button

As a matter of fact the money which is realised by the Land Commission as a result of the Congested Districts Board activities in the past, does not pass to the Minister for Finance. All this money c...More Button

That is outside the scope of this section.More Button

The section is confined to county boroughs and does not deal with counties.More Button

Surely the Deputy will realise that a discussion on the Land Commission Estimate should be raised on the Estimate and not on this section.More Button

It is outside the scope of this section.More Button

In this amendment Deputy Derrig evidently only intends to deal with tenants coming under the Act of 1923. He apparently left out of consideration altogether the allottees of untenanted land and the t...More Button

It is perfectly evident that neither Deputy Geoghegan nor Deputy Derrig understand the section to which they have tabled this amendment. Deputy Derrig asked why not publish a list and fix the Appointe...More Button

In any event, the Deputy's amendment only refers to the tenants who purchased under the Act of 1923.More Button

It does not. It deals only with tenants under the 1923 Act, leaving out of account tenants on the Congested Districts Board estates. So I assume that if this amendment were passed the Land Commissio...More Button

I am prepared to give the Deputy credit for good intentions, and that he does mean to include the Congested Districts Board tenants. The Land Commission, at the moment, are preparing these lists, and...More Button

I cannot go further than I went when replying on the Second Reading of this Bill.More Button

I have stated definitely and specifically that I hope every holding will be vested within a year from the passing of this Bill. Beyond that I cannot go.More Button

I do not. They could not be within the amendment. This is an amendment to Section 9 and Section 9 does not deal with the C.D.B. cases at all.More Button

It was intended to be. The Deputy, not understanding the section, made a mistake in drafting the amendment.More Button

I move: In sub-section (1), line 11, after the word “publish” to insert the words “in the prescribed manner.” This is merely a drafting amendment. Amendment put and agreed to.More Button

The appointed day will be some day in or about the day the list is published. It might be convenient for the Land Commission to fix the appointed day on the gale day which might fall on the day befor...More Button

Hence the section is worded as it is. Amendment put and negatived.More Button

The title did not delay vesting.More Button

The investigation of title has nothing to do with vesting.More Button

The amendment proposes to make retrospective the appointed day to the 9th August, 1928, and I assume it is intended that the State should pay the difference between the payments in lieu of rents and t...More Button

I understood the Deputy to say that.More Button

The Deputy must remember that immediately on the passing of the Act of 1923 the rents of the landlord were reduced by 25 per cent., and in addition that they are still paying 7 per cent. on their cha...More Button

For the other tenants the time was December, 1929. It would be interesting to know what has happened since 1929 to force the Deputy to the conclusion that the appointed day should be made retrospecti...More Button

But the appointed day was fixed considerably ahead—three years in the case of judicial tenants.More Button

I did not say a word about the landlord or the vendor.More Button

The Deputy does not deny that he mentioned a date in his Bill.More Button

The present amendment means, as I understand it, that the tenants will have to be reimbursed the difference between the payment in lieu of rent and the annuities which will be paid by the tenant under...More Button

The Deputy obviously misunderstands the whole scheme of the Bill with regard to retained holdings. In the Act of 1923 all tenants on the appointed day are deemed by Section 28 to have entered into pur...More Button

No.More Button

No difficulty whatever. I have made it clear in a later section of the Bill.More Button

Section 11. Amendment by leave withdrawn.More Button

By what court?More Button

I do not think the Deputy is quite serious about the amendment.More Button

What court?More Button

I asked the question on a point of information.More Button

I could not accept the amendment. In fact Deputy Derrig has made no effort to make his intention clear. Deputy Ryan quoted a particular case but I am not sure from what he stated that it is really a...More Button

The letting of course might be treated by the Land Commission as ordinary untenanted land.More Button

No. I am prepared to adjourn discussion on this particular amendment until the Report Stage.More Button

Yes, so that the Deputies may make up their minds as to what they really want. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.More Button

This is going outside the section and it is out of order.More Button

That case is not decided yet.More Button

No.More Button

Under the Act of 1923 there is a right of appeal from the decisions of the Judicial Commissioner to the Supreme Court on questions of law. Deputies will probably remember that when concluding the Sec...More Button

That is not the amendment.More Button

I am discussing the amendment.More Button

When that arises in a proper way I am prepared to answer.More Button

The point does not arise here.More Button

The statement was made by Deputy Gorey that the Judicial Commissioner was responsible for delays in vesting. He is not responsible for any delay that may have taken place in vesting.More Button

The Judicial Commissioner has nothing whatever to do with the vesting of land. His duties commence really after the land is vested.More Button

In reply to Deputy Gorey's point about the delay that may take place in connection with non-judicial holdings, the Deputy has forgotten that the Land Act of 1929 was introduced primarily for the purpo...More Button

I want to stress the point that there is no delay whatever on the part of the Judicial Commissioner in hearing cases. What the Deputies do not understand is that the Judicial Commissioner cannot hear...More Button

My point is that the delay took place before it was lodged, if, indeed, it has been lodged in the court even yet.More Button

There is no delay on the part of the Judicial Commissioner. I think that even Deputy Geoghegan, on the opposite benches, will bear me out in that. There has always been a right of appeal from the La...More Button

That information can be substantiated. I do not propose to waive the right of appeal to the Judicial Commissioner. I consider that in many cases it is necessary to retain that right. Whilst I am as...More Button

The Deputy will have an opportunity of raising that on the estimates.More Button

I cannot accept the amendment. I might say that the Land Commission have always exercised discretion in regard to the retention of holdings. It is now sought to insert in the Bill that the Land Comm...More Button

Surely Deputy Geoghegan does not suggest that this amendment won't prevent the advance of more than £3,000.More Button

No. The Deputy knows perfectly well that under the Act of 1923, retention in the case where the advance is over £3,000 is automatic and will continue to be so. In the other cases under the sub-secti...More Button

The Deputy had better put down a question about it, and I will tell him why the Land Commission proposes to retain it. Question put and agreed to. SECTION 12.More Button

To the exclusion of the congests, I assume.More Button

Is the Deputy discussing the point of order or making a speech on the amendment?More Button

What lists have been published recently?More Button

If the final list has been published then the section will not apply.More Button

If the final list was published this section will not apply. Section 12, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Section 13 ordered to stand part of the Bill. SECTION 14. (2) Every application...More Button

The Deputy's point is covered by Section 12 of the Act of 1927. Payment in lieu of rent, of course, is not paid until the particulars are lodged, and then it is only paid from the date on which the p...More Button

Payment in lieu of rent would still commence from the date on which the particulars were lodged, and the error would be rectified subsequently. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Section ordered to stand...More Button

I do not think the Deputy seriously proposes that I should introduce legislation for the purpose of meeting a case of that kind. After all, if a holding of land does not come under the Land Acts I do...More Button

There are very few cases of that kind. I am sure the case cited by the Deputy is an exceptional one. In any event he is satisfied it is a type of case that cannot be covered by any section in this Bi...More Button

How do you suggest that we can provide for it?More Button

Oh, no. I was merely giving Deputies another opportunity to make up their minds as to what they really wanted.More Button

There is no point in what Deputy Little has said, as town parks are not excluded from the Land Acts. Deputy Little should know that. The proposal is this, that the tenant of a holding excluded from t...More Button

Yes. I take it the landlord returned the tenant in the bona fide belief that he was a tenant to whom the 1923 Land Act applied. It was subsequently discovered that it did not apply to this particula...More Button

That is a matter between the landlord and his tenant.More Button

I think that the Deputy will find that his point is covered by paragraph (d) of sub-section (1). The wording is different from that in the amendment but it covers the same point, and perhaps it cove...More Button

There is no necessity. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.More Button

I move:— In sub-section (3), page 9, line 33, to delete the word “Land.” This is purely a drafting amendment. Amendment put and agreed to. Question proposed: “That Section 15, as amended, stand part o...More Button

As I understand this proposal it would deduct the sub-tenants arrears from the purchase money going to the landlord and add it to the value of the intervening interests of the tenant. The Land Commi...More Button

No.More Button

They may be in some cases, but there is no obligation on him unless he knows them.More Button

Yes. They are discovered also in the course of inspections by our surveyors or inspectors down the country.More Button

The landlord of course may not be aware of the existence of the sub-tenants at all.More Button

In the majority of cases he would not be aware. He has no knowledge in many cases. These are sub-tenancies on tenanted holdings.More Button

He may not be aware.More Button

The Deputy referred to the fact that the landlord did not return the sub-tenancies. I am replying to that by stating that the landlord, in the majority of cases, would not be aware of the existence o...More Button

Of course, yes.More Button

Yes, and will pay an annuity direct to the Land Commission. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.More Button

I move:— In sub-section (1), page 9, after the word “rent” where it first occurs in line 42, to insert in brackets the words “(as reduced under section 23 of the Land Act, 1923)” and after the word “r...More Button


Last Updated: 17/05/2011 19:53:04 First Page Previous Page Page of 33 Next Page Last Page