MacEntee, Seán

Tuesday, 5 July 1938

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 72 No. 3

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Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Compensation for Malicious Damage.

I am aware of the existence of the law under which a person whose property has been maliciously damaged may obtain compensation from the local authority and of the circumstances in which the law origi...More Button

I consider that, by the repeal of the law, greater hardship would be inflicted upon the individual whose property was damaged than by its continuance.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Blind Persons' Pensions.

Legislation has been prepared and will be introduced shortly to exclude from the calculation of a blind parent's means, for the purposes of a blind pension award, of any allowance payable by a local a...More Button

Committee on Finance. Financial Motions. - Motion No. 1—Income-Tax.

I move:— (1) That where the owner of any securities sells or transfers the right to receive any particular interest payable (whether before or after such sale or transfer) in respect of the said secu...More Button

I think the Deputy has not got the point quite fully.More Button

My voice may not have carried, but I did try to make this case quite clear. Assume that the holder of certain bonds, the interest on which is paid by way of redemption of a coupon, sold the interest ...More Button

One does not know the circumstances, but, quite clearly, if by selling the interest coupons, a person could escape income-tax, I think there would be a very substantial inducement for the holder of su...More Button

A person will be charged on the proceeds of the sale of the coupons. That will depend upon the terms upon which he sells them. Questions put and agreed to.More Button

Committee on Finance. Financial Motions. - Motion No. 2—Income-Tax.

I move:— (1) That where any funding bonds are issued to a creditor in respect of any liability to pay interest on a debt to which this Resolution applies, the issue of those bonds shall be treated fo...More Button

When a Deputy alleges that another Deputy is wrong, surely it is incumbent on the Deputy to show that, in fact, the other Deputy is wrong. I do not think that these wild statements of Deputy Mulcahy ...More Button

There are no figures. We are discussing a general principle. No specific case has arisen here and we are merely making quite certain that should such a case arise, a decision which, from our point of ...More Button

A funding bond would be issued only in respect of the interest for each year.More Button

The full amount of the income received by the person would be treated as income for that year.More Button

On the point which Deputy Cosgrave has raised, it is quite clear that if a funding bond carried two years or three years interest, the usual practice is to charge tax upon the income received in that ...More Button

This particular Resolution, I would submit, is not the place to raise that matter, because that principle, whether for good or for ill, runs and always has run—at least for a considerable number of ye...More Button

The reason is——More Button

It amazes me how Deputy Cosgrave misses his opportunities. This is a case that would appear, at first sight, to be one of hardship. But the Deputy was, on one occasion, not merely head of the Governm...More Button

No, it has always been the practice.More Button

We hold that it has been the law, but in case there may be some person who may proceed to litigate vexatiously, we are making this declaratory Resolution.More Button

I do not know.More Button

I am not prepared to say if there will be penalties until the law is broken.More Button

That is a general question and does not arise on this matter. With regard to Deputy McGilligan's point, there is no substance in it at all. We are not legislating here to invalidate anything which h...More Button

We may not be able, in so far as there might be an attempt on the part of someone, to evade it, to enforce it retrospectively. I am not certain what the courts would hold. We do not know what their v...More Button

Because there was a flaw in the drafting? Why should the legislature permit itself to be defeated when we can bring in a Bill to secure for the State what is justly owing by taxpayers who may wish to...More Button

That remains to be seen.More Button

That is a matter the courts will have to decide.More Button

The Bill does not contain anything which will invalidate anything already on the Statute book. So far as we know, the original provisions were drafted in such a way as to make it possible to deal with...More Button

As to what it was in another place—Great Britain. That is where the doubt was caused. No one has raised the issue here yet. We are now getting a declaration as to what was the intention. As to whe...More Button

We are hoping that the legislation and the provisions of the statute will not be interpreted by our judges as elsewhere.More Button

Even if the Deputy is in the Opposition he should not be absurd. Why does he assume that the decision given elsewhere will be given by our courts?More Button

We are not.More Button

We are facing the possibility. The Deputy is aware that there is some difference between possibility and probability. In order that the possibility may not arise and that the State and the general b...More Button

To make it effective.More Button

There is no question of retrospective legislation here, not in the sense in which the Deputy wishes that word to be construed. I was saying that in Great Britain—if I may be permitted to speak withou...More Button

It does not matter. No case has arisen here.More Button

No case has arisen here. I am not concerned with what the British Government did in regard to British income taxpayers.More Button

I do not know whether they settled the case with that particular income taxpayer or not. I do know that they amended the law to make it quite clear to the courts there.More Button

This is not merely a case of what we have thought the law to be during the six years we have been in office but what Deputy Cosgrave and Deputy McGilligan and Deputy Mulcahy thought it to be during th...More Button

Sir, the Deputy knows as well as I do that the amount would vary from year to year.More Button

According, first, to whether people were receiving interest on funding bonds; according to whether they sold foreign securities and invested them in Irish securities, or whether they sold Irish secur...More Button

I do not know, and neither does anybody else know. The Deputy is only wasting time. He knows that as well as I.More Button

The Deputy puts that absurd statement——More Button

Sir, is that in order?More Button

It might have been £50,000. I do not know, and the Deputy does not know.More Button

I do not know how much it is.More Button

I have not said so.More Button

Presumably, yes.More Button

Not unless the bond is disposed of.More Button

Yes.More Button

The interest is paid to the recipient, whoever gets it.More Button

It will depend on the owner of the bond at a specific date.More Button

Any person with income assessable to tax is liable to pay the tax. I assume that in some of these cases they may sell the funding bonds abroad.More Button

No, but apparently the Deputy is anxious that those people should get off, should be relieved of their responsibilities.More Button

Committee on Finance. Financial Motions. - Motion No. 3—Income Tax.

I move:— (1) That any sum which is paid or payable during or by reference to the administration period to a person in respect of an interest (whether limited or absolute) owned by him in the estate of...More Button

There is no point about penalties, and the Deputy knows that as well as I do.More Button

Wait and see. In connection with this Resolution, I dare say we will hear a great deal about the poor, bleeding taxpayer. This Resolution affects, in the main, persons liable to surtax. The positio...More Button

It might be.More Button

Committee on Finance. Financial Motions. - Motion No. 4—Death Duties.

I move:— (1) That the following provisions shall have effect, for the purposes of Part I of the Finance Act, 1894, in relation to the death of a person who dies after the passing of this Act and on wh...More Button

Committee on Finance. Financial Motions. - Motion No. 5—Death Duties.

I move:—More Button

Committee on Finance. Financial Motions. - Motion No. 6—Excise.

I move:— (1) That, notwithstanding anything contained in sub-section (1) of Section 3 of the Hawkers Act, 1888, or in sub-section (2) of Section 12 of the Finance Act, 1930 (No. 20 of 1930), the duty...More Button

Committee on Finance. Financial Motions. - Motion No. 7—Customs.

I move:— (1) That a duty of customs at the rate of an amount equal to thirty-seven and one-half per cent. of the value of the article shall be charged, levied, and paid on every of the following arti...More Button

I am not in a position to say. I understand that arrangements have been made by which some representatives of the steel manufacturers are to meet the Minister for Industry and Commerce. I do not kno...More Button

Yes.More Button

Yes. Question put and agreed to.More Button

I want them reported on Thursday. Agreed.More Button

Committee on Finance. Financial Motions. - Collection of Taxes (Confirmation) Bill, 1938—Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be read a Second Time. Seven of the Resolutions which were passed on the 12th May last were given statutory effect under the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1927. That Act,...More Button

It is.More Button

I do not think it will be ever necessary to impose the penal provisions of certain Acts. It is not, therefore, necessary to make provision for that situation until it arises.More Button

The Deputy says it is not legal to do it. He has been advocating an amendment of the Constitution, but why advocate an amendment of the Constitution when it is unnecessary? I have already said that t...More Button

The question of the collection of income-tax is being legalised. That is quite a different thing from making illegal during that period the non-payment of taxes. No person seeks to do that. If a per...More Button

The necessity will disappear once the Bill comes into operation.More Button

By the usual processes of law. What we are simply doing here as practical business men is to confirm the policy of these Resolutions, and making certain that the collection of the revenue, which is o...More Button

I understood that all stages of the Bill would be taken to-day.More Button

Are we taking the Committee Stage here to-day, Sir? I understood that we were taking all stages.More Button

I would suggest that we take all the stages. However, I should like to reserve what I might have to say in connection with this to the last stage of the Bill, if we want to continue this discussion ...More Button

I cannot admit that there is anything in the constitutional point.More Button

Perhaps the Deputy would bear with me for a moment. I say that I am not conceding anything with regard to the constitutional point — I do not think there is anything very much in it — but I should be...More Button

I think it only goes to show that even a brilliant Deputy like Deputy McGilligan should not get up here and try to improvise a case.More Button

It has.More Button

Oh, no — quite different — whether the Bill is contrary to the Constitution.More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote 2—Houses of the Oireachtas.

I move:— Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £73.740 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun ...More Button

Is the Deputy speaking for his Party now?More Button

Deputy Linehan will let the moral of that sink in in regard to the restaurant.More Button

If I might intervene, I should like the Deputy to know that the Government are not primarily responsible for the restaurant. The restaurant is under the control of the Ceann Comhairle and the officer...More Button

With regard to the question of the Seanad, a proposal in that connection is under consideration, but I am not in a position to make any definite announcement at this stage. With regard to the date upo...More Button

That, I cannot say. The matter is occupying the attention of myself and my advisers and I hope to have some decision by the Government as a whole within a short time. With regard to the questions of p...More Button

Only portion, if a loss arises.More Button

I would not say that at all. The fact that they are caterers to the Oireachtas restaurant has commercial advantages for them. They are able to, and they do, advertise that fact, and they are prepare...More Button

They have not been ignored. It is not right to say that the recommendations have been ignored. A Bill to deal with the recommendations of the commission is under discussion in Departments of the Gov...More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote No. 5—Office of the Minister for Finance.

I move:— Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £49,189 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun ...More Button

The people have given their answer.More Button

The Deputy's conversion to republicanism was taken at its worth by the people, too.More Button

Tell the Dáil the truth about the 2,000 who are getting 30/- a week. Tell the Dáil that they are part-time postmen.More Button

I am not going, at this stage, to indicate what steps the Government propose to take to deal with the issues which were before the people at the last general election, one of them being that which Dep...More Button

The Deputy ought to try to be intelligent.More Button

That is the sort of interruption I get from the Deputy. This question was then put:— “In fact, by acceptance of the arbitration award, on its being made the Executive Council would be expected automat...More Button

This is 1938. The people have spoken on this matter. Deputy Norton went to the people and told them of the pledges which the Fianna Fáil Party gave in 1932. He put the issue before them, and I put t...More Button

It is on that I am going to stand now and henceforward in this Dáil in regard to Civil Service matters. Just take the case that was cited by the Deputy. He referred to 4,000 civil servants who had n...More Button

I said “maybe.”More Button

The Deputy knows as well as I do that they are part-time postmen.More Button

I would not address that admonition to the Deputy. I am telling the House now that when he referred to “the civil servants”, as he called them — the “public employees”, as they are—who are in receipt...More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote No. 6—Office of the Revenue Commissioners.

I move:— Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £573,771 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá dé Mhárta, 1939, chun...More Button

The principal items which are responsible for the increase of £30,000 under sub-head A are the cost-of-living bonus, £22,700; the Accountant-General's office, where there has been an increase of £2,40...More Button

The cost-of-living bonus accounts for £22,700.More Button

I think the Deputy will find that my figures are right.More Button

There is a net increase of £23,600, of which £22,700 is entirely due to the cost-of-living bonus. Vote put and agreed to.More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote 7—Old Age Pensions.

I move:— Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £2,356,450 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, ch...More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote—8.—Compensation Bounties.

I move: Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £28,000 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha na Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta. 1939, chun ...More Button

That does not arise on this. We have to be quite clear where my responsibility begins and ends. The variation in these figures is occasioned by an increase in this particular case in the quantity o...More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote 13—Civil Service Commission.

I move:— Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £17,090 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun ...More Button

The provision is for both.More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote 14—Property Losses Compensation.

I move:— Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £14,710 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun ...More Button

So far as I can gather, there are only about 170 cases awaiting to be dealt with by the courts, anyhow. When the courts will deal with these I do not know, because some of them are rather difficult, ...More Button

So far as I know, there are no new cases.More Button

It did, but there was a decision of the High Court which allowed a little latitude in regard to that, but I think that any new claim lodged now would receive very short shrift from the courts. Vote pu...More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote 15—Personal Injuries Compensation.

I move:— Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £360 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun íoc...More Button

No, not at all.More Button

I am afraid that might be more properly addressed to my predecessor. These are arising out of Easter Week, 1916, and also for certain claims for compensation in respect of death or injuries sustained...More Button

No, they are all of old standing. Vote put and agreed to.More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote 16—Superannuation and Retired Allowances.

I move:—More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote 18—Secret Service.

I move:— Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £13,300 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun ...More Button

It is not being spent in fact.More Button

Yes, it may be wanted.More Button

I could not tell the amount actually spent last year, but I can give the figure for the year before, because it takes some time to get the figures in. I can give the Deputy the figures for several ye...More Button

The Deputy realises that the circumstances were not wholly similar.More Button

The Deputy may have his view on that, but I will reserve to myself the right to hold mine. Vote put and agreed to.More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote 19—Tariff Commission.

I move:— Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £3,640 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun T...More Button

The Tariff Commission was established in pursuance of Section 2 of the Tariff Commission Act, 1926. Under it, the Minister may, if he thinks fit, refer to the Commission, for consideration and report...More Button

The position is that there has not been, if you like, a reference made to them in regard to most of the articles in respect to which tariffs have been granted. Some of these matters have, however, b...More Button

Oh, no.More Button

I have not said “on rare occasions.”More Button

I am afraid that would reduce the progress which has been made in industrial development to an infinitesimal rate. It is not true to say that these gentlemen's services are availed of only on rare oc...More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote No. 25—Supplementary Agricultural Grants.

I move:—More Button

I always said that.More Button

It is quite true.More Button

This is provided for by Statute. The Deputy cannot criticise the Statute or advocate legislation on this Vote. He will have an opportunity later.More Button

The Deputy is aware that it is fixed by Statute.More Button

Will the Deputy tell the House who instituted that system?More Button

The Deputy is quite wrong.More Button

I do not know whether or not this debate has been strictly in order. So far as I am concerned, the major question — derating — has been referred to the highest authority in the land and has been deci...More Button

The Deputy knows as well as I do what they get. He was, I believe, for some time a member of a local authority. Surely he does not mean to tell me he was taxing the people and imposing burdens on t...More Button

They were given to everybody. Are we to take it that sectionalism is to run so rampant in this community that one section will get all the benefit and the other section will get nothing?More Button

Does the Deputy want me to believe that the farmer is not a living element in this community and that he gets no advantage from this expenditure?More Button

Does he get no benefit from the local educational services, the local road service, the local medical services, the local public health services?More Button

He does not send his children along the roads provided by the people?More Button

Then all this money must be spent to improve the condition of the greyhounds. I do not know what else these roads, schools and public health services are for if the farmer gets no benefit from them.More Button

His position is, to say the least, a peculiar one.More Button

Does the farmer never get any benefit out of this expenditure?More Button

Does the agricultural labourer get no benefit?More Button

Does he get any benefit?More Button

What particular element in the community gets the benefit of the services provided by the local authorities?More Button

The Minister gets no more benefit than the Deputy, if the Deputy is referring to the Minister in his personal capacity.More Button

The farmer has not to pay the highest amount. If he had, would we be voting £1,870,000 to relieve the farmer of some part of the cost of local services?More Button

If I am not going to be permitted to speak without interruption, I shall not waste the time of the House.More Button

I do not propose, while Deputy Brasier is in the House, to continue my statement.More Button

I understand that agreement has been reached whereby the Order of the House to take the Finance Bill on Friday will be changed so as to permit of its being taken on Thursday.More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote 26—Law Charges.

I move:— Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £46,477 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníochta i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun ...More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote 28.—Universities and Colleges.

I move:— Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £81,780 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun ...More Button

Committee on Finance. - Vote 31—Management of Government Stocks.

I move:—More Button

No. Vote agreed to. Progress reported; the Committee to sit again to-morrow. The Dáil adjourned at 10.15 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 6th July, 1938.More Button


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