Sweetman, Gerard

Wednesday, 5 December 1956

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 160 No. 13

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Committee on Finance. - Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, 1956—Money Resolution.

I move:— That for the purpose of any Act of the present session to provide, in relation to profits from coal-mining and profits from exports, for temporary relief from taxation, to provide for the gra...More Button

I think it would be very difficult at this stage. It all depends on how much exports go up.More Button

Committee on Finance. - Finance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, 1956—Committee Stage.

Might we take amendments Nos. 1, 4 and 5 together?More Button

There is this difference between plant normally used in a mine and plant normally used in a quarry. Plant used in a mine is far less capable of being shifted from one place to another after a particu...More Button

I move amendment No. 2:— In line 35, to delete “from a mine worked by him”.More Button

I move amendment No. 6:— In line 41, before “and” to insert “or the smelting of ore is likely to be discontinued”. This is part of the same matter which was considered in relation to those other amend...More Button

I take it that, when the Deputy was framing his amendment and used the words “average output of coal”, he did not intend thereby to mean anything other than the word we have used-“volume”?More Button

I take it that the Deputy did not drop the word “volume” deliberately and that, therefore, we are arguing about the same thing?More Button

I must confess, as I said at the conclusion of the Second Reading, that I was a little amused at Deputy Lemass suggesting at this stage that what I should do is to introduce an amendment to the 1946 F...More Button

I do not think I was going to go on that. I do not think it is desirable that either Deputy Lemass or I should discuss what might be identified as individual concerns across the floor of the House, a...More Button

I want to come back to the type of mine which I think will be assisted by this legislation. The other type that is gradually going forward all the time has got its impetus. That impetus will carry it...More Button

I thank the Deputy for the “understandable”.More Button

I think it is better to take a fixed period of one year having regard to the general purposes for which the Bill is framed. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Sections 8 and 9 agreed to. SECTION 10.More Button

This is not the end of discussion on Finance Bills. The Deputy and I will both agree in that respect. I think that for the purpose of an appraisal of the benefits that will accrue if industrialists ...More Button

Oh, no. Be accurate now.More Button

No; it does not say that. We will come on to that, but that is not what the Bill says.More Button

Are we discussing all the amendments or merely the first one?More Button

There is no question of the consideration of limiting the period to one of five years being the consideration of the amount involved, as has been suggested by Deputy Lemass. I am not going to be dra...More Button

I do not think that suggestion was the least bit worthy of Deputy Lemass—not the least bit worthy. On the basis of the experience of the past 35 years of this State, where people have been deliberate...More Button

The Deputy is contradicting himself. A second ago he said that, on that basis, nobody would consider the concessions. This concession is introduced for a period of five years and I am quite certain ...More Button

The Deputy made a remark a minute ago that was not worthy of him. Question—“That the figures proposed to be deleted stand”—put. The Committee divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 51. TáMore Button

There are, of course, as the three Deputies opposite have said, many cases in which manufacturing concerns here have set up subsidiary companies for the purpose of carrying out sales in the export and...More Button

An unfortunate example.More Button

An organisation in America?More Button

The Deputy said in America.More Button

The Deputy said: “To set up an organisation in America.”More Button

I hope the Deputy does not think everybody will accept his calculations.More Button

I must confess I am getting somewhat confused by the Deputy's family of companies.More Button

Quite.More Button

The last, I think, would be a 12-marker.More Button

In the first part of his speech, Deputy Lemass said that if he were dealing with the definition of “manufacturer” in this Bill he would do so by way of providing that goods were only manufactured good...More Button

That definition would be utterly and absolutely unworkable. The definition of “manufacturer” is, I think, clear enough. Processing is a manufacture. I think we can all visualise quite simply what is...More Button

If the Deputy looks at the definition of manufacturer anywhere, he will find that dressed chicken would hardly be raised in relation to this. Perhaps if Deputy Corry were here, he might even raise it...More Button

I am interested in the manufacturers getting the concession and in ensuring that they do. In the last suggestion by Deputy MacEntee, I think there is a prospect in that way of the manufacturers getti...More Button

I will certainly consider it between now and the next stage. I want the manufacturer to get this concession.More Button

It is the final manufacturer.More Button

The Deputy can see the difficulties of administering that and of going down right through the chain. If Deputy Corry were in the House, he would go right down to the farmer who produced the ewes, the...More Button

I would not call putting an article into a box manufacturing.More Button

May I make this quite clear? One person gets all the relief or no relief. It is not a question of dividing the relief. You could not divide the relief.More Button

Is that what the Deputy is trying to get them to do?More Button

That is the second time to-day the Deputy has taken that line, of trying to prevent people doing things in the national interest.More Button

Deputy Lemass at times even surpasses himself in the white heat of annoyance which he can reach at his own failure to persuade his colleagues to introduce similar provisions in the past. I do not pro...More Button

——of increasing exports as a whole ? I can give the Deputy examples easily enough where it would be better for the concern to accept my datum.More Button

It is quite definitely possible.More Button

I am talking on an average. So far as the Deputy's optional question is concerned, he is using that from the point of view of the company rather than from that of the economy. I think it is better t...More Button

The Deputy's personal experience does not enter into this but I am quite prepared to match my experience against the Deputy's—also its propriety.More Button

The brothers and sisters of the company.More Button

I think the case Deputy MacEntee has in mind would get some advantage by reason of the method of the choice of period for the commencement of the relief to which I have referred. I could think of on...More Button

One can always be shown that in relation to any concession. Question—“That the words proposed to be deleted stand”—put. The Committee divided : Tá, 67; Níl, 59. TáMore Button

The position which Deputy Lemass has indicated in respect of this amendment is not the accurate position at all. I agree wholeheartedly that it is desirable that companies should make reasonable prof...More Button

——quite apart from its administrative difficulty because then, when one goes from the actual payment of the dividend concerned to the grossing up that I have provided so as to ensure that the relief i...More Button

I did not hear the Deputy's last remark.More Button

The question arises in respect of two types of company, the existing concern that is operating both in respect of——More Button

——the home market and in relation to its export market. That is an existing export trade. There is a second type of concern that has already a home market but has never had any export market and now ...More Button

The effective method, as the Deputy himself explained a few minutes ago, of dealing with that situation in relation to either of those two types of company is perfectly simple and will not in any way...More Button

Not at all. The competent business man in that type of business is not going to pay out in dividends more than the reasonable proportion that will be involved. If he does, he does it because he want...More Button

——the Deputy is making his case on that. I suggest to the Deputy that as far as that is concerned where you are giving a concession, you are entitled to make a provision in relation to that concessio...More Button

——so far as that problem emerges, I shall certainly consider it between now and Report Stage. But on general principles, it is desirable that firms when they get a special concession from the State s...More Button

There certainly should not be a provision that they should never pay dividends.More Button

I think that means that the company is in the State; it may have business outside the State.More Button

The only thing it cannot do is use the money to establish a branch factory somewhere else. Anyway, in the case of advertising expenditure, would not that normally be expenditure deductible from curren...More Button

The explanation of this clause is that it means anything that the company does for its purposes.More Button

The Deputy will permit me to differ from him on that.More Button

I take it Deputy Lemass agrees with me it would be quite impracticable in ordinary business to keep exact separate accounts so as to show the exact separate proportion of the profits that were related...More Button

I am fully aware the Deputy is not, but I take it he would agree that it would be administratively impossible to do so—to segregate their profits from exports from profits on home sales.More Button

No, because under the provisions of the Bill it is the excess of value that goes in for apportionment purposes. The Deputy should look at the provisions of subsection (1) of Section 12. What occurs ...More Button

By a proportion basis and not by an individual costing basis.More Button

The Deputy will find it is there all right. He can take it from me that is the basis. It will not be an individual costing of each item that is sent for export. I think the Deputy must agree, as an...More Button

It happens to be the truth—perhaps sometimes a thing that is foreign to the Deputy.More Button

I am not prepared at this stage to commit myself one way or the other in respect of the remaining recommendations in the Report of the Industrial Taxation Committee. I have introduced this section an...More Button

Does the Deputy think it means that in ten years a person would get 100 per cent.?More Button

In that case, I think the Deputy must have been translated into Elysium.More Button

The section is a bit complicated and requires rather careful analysis.More Button

In view of the dulcet tones which the Deputy has used, if this date were to be considered alone in relation to Section 16 he might have been able to succeed with his blandishments. He will recollect ...More Button

I find considerable difficulty in remaining in my seat listening to the hypocrisy expressed by Deputy Brennan. He commenced by saying that it was essential in the national interest to have confidence...More Button

It arises on the issue of confidence that was raised by Deputy Brennan.More Button

Deputy Brennan was allowed to raise the question of confidence as the basis upon which it was essential to carry on State finances. However, I do not mind in the slightest dealing with it now or on an...More Button

We are going to get into it in real earnest.More Button

I do not know whether I am in order in going back to the White Paper on exports or the balance of trade in 1951, but I can quite easily do so.More Button

Very well. I want to make it clear beyond question in relation to this section and to this scheme of prize bonds that it is a scheme by virtue of which moneys will be obtained by prize bonds, premium...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Written Answers. - American Loan Counterpart Fund: Borrowings.

The information requested by the Deputy as to the total amount paid out of the Exchequer in respect of Voted Capital Services in the period 13 June, 1951, to 4 August, 1951, is not available as only q...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Written Answers. - American Loan Counterpart Fund—Withdrawals.

As the reply is in the form of a tabular statement, I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to have it circulated with the Official Report. Following is the statement:— Investments of A...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Written Answers. - Purchase of Exchequer Bonds and Corporation Stock.

I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to take Questions Nos. 82 and 83 together. I would refer the Deputy to the published annual accounts of the fund which have been presented to bot...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Written Answers. - Creation of Debt.

I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to take Questions Nos. 84 and 85 together and to circulate the answer, which is in the form of a tabular statement, in the Official Report.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Written Answers. - Exchequer Receipts and Issues.

As the reply is in the form of a tabular statement, I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to have it circulated with the Official Report. Following is the statement:— Exchequer—Period...More Button

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