MacEntee, SeánWednesday, 29 May 1957 |
Dáil Éireann Debate
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Committee on Finance. - Health and Mental Treatment Bill, 1957—Second Stage.
I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. The purpose of this Bill is to permit certain moderate increases to be made in the charges fixed for institutional services, that is, hospital services...
For 1952-53, £7,276,000; for the current year, £11,210,000, an increase of almost £4,000,000 or about 54 per cent.
That is the net cost to the local authorities of hospital treatment.
Yes.
Yes. I was saying, Sir, that some people seem to consider that we should adopt the principle that charges once fixed are immutable and should thereafter not be increased under any conditions whatsoev...
The Chair will deal with this. I would be grateful if the Chair would keep Deputy Dillon in order.
Perhaps I should begin with Deputy Dr. Browne's contribution. He takes issue with this Bill on the general principle that health services should be free for everybody—not only for the poor people who ...
Deputy O'Higgins said—no doubt he thought it was a very good phrase—that for the first time in the history of the State money is being asked from the sick. Does Deputy O'Higgins remember the Paying P...
I am just pinning the Deputy down.
It is not true to say that this is the first time in the history of the State that money is being asked from the sick by the State.
It is impossible to argue with a man who does not know the difference between payments, who tries to draw a fine distinction between payments for services rendered and taxes. This is not a tax Bill.
This is not a tax Bill; it is a Bill fixing a charge.
Is the Deputy trying to induce the people to believe that, when the petrol tax went up, as it did under the Government of which the Deputy was a member, and the transport services were given permissio...
——but not for a specific service—for the State services as a whole. There is no use in Deputy O'Higgins trying to confuse the issue by referring to this service as a tax. I am leaving that out——
I am leaving the Deputy's slogan out——
I am sorry that the former Minister who just left the Ministry of Health should come in here and ask the people to believe that this is the first time money is being asked from the sick. Everybody wh...
Very often. Specialist services were not provided free formerly. Before Section 15 came in, those who wanted specialist services had to pay for them——
——except public assistance patients.
There is nothing in this Bill which affects public assistance patients. The position now is that despite what the former Minister——
——said in this House to-day, specialist services prior to the 1953 Act were not available free——
Not to all insured persons.
Not to all of them. I happen to know. I was Minister for Local Government and Public Health when these additional services were provided. They were provided simply because there happened to be a su...
They were provided free to a certain number of insured persons so long as the money was available.
Deputy O'Higgins also said that every insured person was entitled to free hospital and specialist services. These services were not available to insured persons unless they satisfied certain conditio...
Yes, I know. Why did the Deputy not say that? That is not what the Deputy said when speaking. He knows now he is being caught, so he is mending his hand. Instead of speaking as a responsible member ...
Not only that but the Deputy ought to know that the hospital benefit was limited in time.
You could only have it for six weeks.
I am sorry if I missed the one statement, which was wholly and entirely true, that the Deputy made. I am awfully sorry I missed it.
I am sorry I did not hear the Deputy say they were entitled to it for six weeks. I heard him mention certain figures. He mentioned not only 400,000; he mentioned 800,000. I did not hear him say—it m...
I did not hear the Deputy say that a certain number of insured persons, those who were three years in benefit, were entitled to hospital and specialist services for a limited period of six weeks. As ...
——so that those who were not dependents had to be paid for one way or the other.
The insured persons themselves did receive the hospital treatment and were entitled to the specialist services, but the others were not—the dependents were not. This position is quite changed under t...
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Appointment of Dentist in Waterford.
I have received a proposal from the Waterford Board of Public Assistance for sanction to the appointment of a temporary wholetime dental surgeon to deal with persons in the lower income group who have...
Both. Of course if one has not the money one cannot have anything else.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Mayo Ophthalmic Surgeon.
I am not aware that there is any existing vacancy for an ophthalmic surgeon to the Mayo County Council. Four temporary part-time ophthalmic surgeons are at present employed by the council as an inter...
Health and Mental Treatment Bill, 1957—Second Stage (Resumed).
I have dealt with that point. I was saying before the interval that my predecessor had made the extraordinary statement—extraordinary for a person familiar with the facts—that for the first time mone...
Raising the limit of the charge which may be made.
What we are doing is telling the local authorities that they may not charge more than 10/-. We are not saying: “You shall charge 10/-”, any more than we are saying that they should charge 6/-. Any D...
The Deputy knows well what I am talking about. He knows the amount by which the income from the Hospitals' Trust Fund for this year was anticipated in order to pay the deficits which accrued last yea...
When the Deputy talks about what he left behind him let me remind him that he left, not alone these services, but a very substantial debt which this Government has to meet.
It is because of the debts which we inherited from our predecessors, including the Budget imbalance of £6,000,000, that this Budget is necessary. The responsibility for this measure in present circum...
When I receive it from the board.
I have no idea what the board is doing. I have no doubt they are doing the work they were set up to do but I have no information as to what progress they have made.
That is only half the story. The total amount of recoupment under this Bill will be £180,000.
The amount of recoupment under this Bill is £180,000, of which the local authorities will benefit to the extent of £90,000.
I agree with the Deputy that it is a very distasteful thing to have to do but we have been left no other option.
This is a very simple Bill. Could we have the Committee Stage now?
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