Haughey, Charles J.

Tuesday, 12 May 1964

Dáil Eireann Debate
Vol. 209 No. 9

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Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Traffic Stop Signs.

As I stated in a reply of 11th July last, the Garda Síochána, acting on legal advice, are not bringing any prosecutions merely for failure to stop at “stop” signs. It can often happen, however, that ...More Button

No. Stop signs are still authorised signs. They are in some places being replaced by Yield right of way signs but this is not general. In fact, new by-laws covering the whole matter are at the mome...More Button

Yes. I think I made it as clear as I can. Stop signs are still authorised signs, although, because of certain legal complications, the gardaí are not any longer bringing prosecutions merely for fail...More Button

Not simply for failure to obey the Stop sign.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Garda Evidence in Road Accident Actions.

There are no statutory regulations governing this matter, but the practice is as follows: Persons involved in road accidents, their legal advisers or insurers, or other interested parties may on recei...More Button

It is one of those things that I would always be prepared to discuss with the Incorporated Law Society if they thought it necessary to approach me about it.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Garda Disciplinary Investigations.

I assume that this question arises from a most misleading article about discipline in the Garda Síochána which appeared in a Sunday newspaper on 3rd May. While it is not the normal practice to suppl...More Button

I am not sure to which circular the Deputy is referring.More Button

I did not say any circular——More Button

I do not think anybody pays much attention to these scare headlines on Sunday mornings.More Button

The poor fellows have to write about something.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Child Beggars In Dublin.

The question seems to suggest, on the one hand, that begging by children on the Dublin streets at night is on a very wide scale and, on the other hand, that it is something that can be eliminated over...More Button

The Deputy may not be very popular in his own household over this.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Simultaneous Deaths Problem.

A provision such as is suggested by the Deputy has proved unsatisfactory elsewhere and has led to highly undesirable results, particularly where the deceased were husband and wife. The problem of sim...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Court Depositions.

The question of using mechanical recording apparatus for the taking of depositions was considered by the Committee on Court Practice and Procedure in connection with its examination of the present pro...More Button

The existence of delay in the preparation of depositions in the Dublin Circuit Criminal Court was first brought to my attention on 6th instant, the day on which the matter was mentioned in court by th...More Button

Death of Member. - Registration of Title Bill, 1963: Report and Final Stages.

On a historic day.More Button

Because of events which were taking place on that day.More Button

The position was that Deputy O'Higgins was not available and the Leader of his Party suggested that, in so far as Deputy O'Higgins's amendments were concerned, we would agree to recommit.More Button

Deputy O'Higgins is in fact looking for two things. First of all, he wants an extension of time to six months, and secondly, he wants to provide that one must only apply within the six months' period...More Button

I would be prepared to accept such a considered statement by the Deputy, naturally. As he knows himself, we have given a great deal of thought to the reorganisation of the Land Registry. Indeed, at on...More Button

That is understood. As I said to the Incorporated Law Society, the provisions of this Bill will not be operated to extend the area of registration until we are adequately equipped.More Button

I do not deny that these practical difficulties exist, but would the Deputies agree with me that it is desirable that we get people to register as soon as possible? That is all I am seeking to do in ...More Button

Yes, but it does not affect the purchaser's equity in the land.More Button

If for any reason whatever the registration formalities cannot be completed within the three months, the Registrar has discretion to extend the time. In the type of cases enumerated by the Deputies, ...More Button

But Deputy O'Higgins is not seeking an extension of the three months to six months simpliciter.More Button

Deputy O'Higgins wants three things. First, he wants six months. Secondly, he wants to have it that one must only apply within the six months.More Button

It is not solely a matter for the officials.More Button

The Deputy wants to discharge his obligation simply by applying and doing nothing more.More Button

My motive is not to create any insuperable difficulties for practitioners but simply to ensure that people are persuaded or compelled to register at the earliest possible moment. I am told that three...More Button

I might go this far: I will agree to consider between now and the time the Bill is taken in the Seanad the question of extending the three months.More Button

On the Adoption Bill.More Button

I know that both Deputies opposite are competent practitioners who do not dilly-dally in their affairs, but let us face the fact that there are practitioners who always leave things to the last minute...More Button

We hope, when we get the Land Registry operating efficiently, ordinary transactions will take ten days. That leaves three months, minus ten days, for clearing up all the difficulties to which Deputy ...More Button

The only issue between us is whether the Registrar should have this discretion. In the type of case which Deputy O'Higgins describes, let us assume it is seven months before all these formalities are...More Button

Provided he has applied within three months, if the Registrar is not in a position to complete the registration formalities within the three months' period, he must, of course, grant an extension.More Button

In that case, surely the Registrar would, of his own volition, grant an extension. The section does not stipulate that an extension must be applied for.More Button

If it could be done within three months, would that not be desirable?More Button

No.More Button

And get his title registered.More Button

To start extending compulsory registration?More Button

I would say in about three months.More Button

A great deal.More Button

The application for the extension?More Button

It goes on the favourite in the 2.30.More Button

This section does not deal with applications. It speaks about registration. It deals only with title passing on registration. The Registrar can extend the time for registration as long as he likes—...More Button

That is not intended.More Button

We shall straighten that out, if necessary. I shall go this far with the Deputy. I shall undertake to make inquiries from the places which seem to be the main sources of worry, that is, the Stamping...More Button

Having regard to what emerges from these inquiries, if I am satisfied that the period of three months is too short, then I shall undertake to extend it in the Seanad to whatever we think it should be.More Button

I would visualise that these would be practical on-the-spot inquiries between officials.More Button

We shall consider that aspect. As of now, I am quite clear in my mind what we want.More Button

No.More Button

I am informed that Deputy O'Higgins's amendment would cut across the whole principle of registration, namely, that the register is at any given moment conclusive evidence of the title to the land. If...More Button

No.More Button

Section 25 refers only to the first registration of unregistered land. “In any case in which registration becomes compulsory”— these are the opening words of section 25. In section 51 we are dealing...More Button

So I am. I have the inchoate ownership.More Button

I will not have the registered estate. That is so.More Button

Section 51 merely re-enacts the existing law, that when you execute a deed of transfer of land you transfer to me certain rights in regard to that land but I do not get the registered ownership of the...More Button

——that, in the interim period, the register would not be conclusive evidence of the ownership of the registered estate.More Button

But I would have my inchoate right——More Button

As I understand the position, when you execute your transfer, you get an inchoate right to have the registered estate in the land transferred to you.More Button

That is what I mean —from the date of the contract.More Button

There is nothing at that stage except in equity. I have only an inchoate right to be registered as owner, but the only estate is the registered estate and that can only come to you when you register.More Button

I will. In these technical matters, I am always prepared to do that. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Question proposed: “That section 51 stand part of the Bill.”More Button

Yes, provided the fee is paid.More Button

Section 14 (3), I believe, governs that.More Button

Subsection (3) of section 14 provides for the fee. I gather Deputy Sweetman is not worried about that. I assume that subsection (3) of section 51 is really an enabling section, or rather more than e...More Button

It is, but I still do not think it would dispense with the technical requirement of a person applying for a land certificate.More Button

You must pay a fee. That is certainly covered.More Button

If you read the two sections together, you will discover that the certificate will be issued only if the fee is paid.More Button

Not really; I do not think so. Section 51 is really a section which makes it mandatory on the registrar to issue a land certificate and section 14, subsection (3), clearly says that no land certifica...More Button

I want again to take refuge in this famous “out” of mine, that this is the existing law and it has been working satisfactorily. You will see on the sidenote that it refers to section 35 of the 1891 A...More Button

It is in section 35 of the 1891 Act. On the registration of a transfer, the Registrar shall deliver a land certificate.More Button

This is very largely a theoretical matter from my point of view. I understand it was the practice in former times to put such a note on the folio but this practice disappeared about 40 years ago on t...More Button

Surely the proper procedure for the purchaser is to deal with it by way of requisition on title in the normal way?More Button

I am told there is a further theoretical objection in this way, that you might actually put a purchaser at a disadvantage, because a purchaser is under no obligation to make inquiries about anything t...More Button

I understand this is a section 47 burden.More Button

This is a burden which affects without registration.More Button

There is no change there; that has always been so.More Button

Since 1894.More Button

The main thing is the Finance Act of 1894.More Button

Under section 47.More Button

But these burdens take effect whether there is registration or not, so that registration does not add to or take from the situation.More Button

Yes. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Section 52 agreed to. Amendment No. 5 not moved. Section 55 agreed to. SECTION 59.More Button

As Deputy O'Higgins pointed out, if we were to accept these amendments, it would mean that the statutory prohibitions against alienation would have to be noted on the register and, if they were not so...More Button

I do not think we could contemplate that situation. We must accept that the paramount thing here is the statutory prohibition. It would be undesirable to have a situation in which a simple omission ...More Button

I agree that this provision is, to some extent, in derogation of that attractiveness.More Button

The statutory prohibition against alienation must take precedence. In that case somebody suffers, but we cannot get behind the statutory prohibition. We cannot have a situation where it would be wip...More Button

Technically, the duty is on the Registrar to put the note there.More Button

The Deputy should not put bad thoughts into people's heads.More Button

That is because the Deputy is bringing a Registry of Deeds mentality to bear on the Land Registry.More Button

The possession of the land certificate does not add one jot to the security of a registered charge. The owner of the charge has a certificate of charge and his charge is registered in the Land Registr...More Button

He does not need the land certificate. It adds nothing to his security. Why, then, deprive the registered owner of this evidence of his title which he may need for other purposes—a second mortgage o...More Button

Wait now. He registers the charge—is that it?More Button

I am told he does not need the land certificate to enable him to sell in exercise of his powers as a registered chargeant.More Button

No. Deputy O'Higgins would be right in what he is suggesting, or, at least, he could have an arguable case, if the land certificate added one jot to the security of the chargeant.More Button

No.More Button

There is no advantage in having it.More Button

I do not prevent the borrower giving the certificate, but I prevent the lender writing into the deed of charge or mortgage instrument a stipulation that it must be handed over. The borrower can stil...More Button

As Deputies know, the borrower is not in the strong position as a rule. It is the person or institution that is lending the money who dictates the terms and very likely, or conceivably, they would wa...More Button

They would be entitled to give such advice, as I say, if the land certificate added in any way to their security, but it does not. The history of this matter is, apparently, that, prior to 1942 banks ...More Button

No.More Button

No.More Button

In this regard they will be in the same position as anybody else and if they attempt to write in such a stipulation—More Button

Deputy Sweetman is on a different point. He says they do not write it in.More Button

That is the way I am reading it.More Button

Even if it is, let us take it that it still rules out a lender stipulating, apart from the instrument, that the land certificate shall be handed over to him, I think we are still right to prohibit it...More Button

It does not help him and it does place unnecessary inconvenience on the registered owner.More Button

The lender has decided whether or not he will lend the money. This sort of technical difficulty will not interfere with that decision.More Button

Let me put this to Deputy O'Higgins: In either his or Deputy Sweetman's experience, has this particular provision given rise to any difficulty since 1942?More Button

If this provision has the effect of making chargeants take out a certificate of charge, then it is all to the good.More Button

It was put in in 1942 at the instance of the then Registrar because he noticed that lenders were insisting on getting certificates into their possession and holding on to them unnecessarily and to the...More Button

In this amendment there is an additional practical consideration. The proposal by Deputy O'Higgins would extend to all existing registered holdings and the Registrar would have to go back and investig...More Button

I move amendment No. 10: In page 32, line 20, after “Where” to insert “, on an application by the registered owner or other person entitled,” and in lines 22 and 23 to delete “may, if he thinks fit an...More Button

I expect that on this occasion the ranks of Tuscany will not forbear to cheer because this amendment is really to meet an object which Deputy O'Higgins is seeking to achieve in amendment No. 11. The ...More Button

First of all, I want to make it clear that this Bill will not of itself extend compulsory registration to any single area in the country. It merely gives us a legislative basis on which we can proceed...More Button

A little learning.More Button

We sent our people over there to see exactly how they do things.More Button

The only thing I want to establish is that it could be done.More Button

Deputy Sweetman paints a picture of impossibility.More Button

Would Deputy Sweetman bear with me for a moment?More Button

The process we envisage will mean that registration will become compulsory in an area only as and when new dealings for value take place in that area. In other words, all the premises in a particular...More Button

Into the lap of the Land Registry. Compulsory registration will arise only when new dealings take place in an area.More Button

We will be concerned with a particular area. Deputy Sweetman's question related to the country as a whole.More Button

We will have to study each area carefully.More Button

That is an unworthy suggestion. We do not envisage anything will happen overnight. We envisage a gradual elimination of the Registry of Deeds and the extension of compulsory registration over 15, 20...More Button

I agree with Deputy O'Higgins. It is not the intention that the Registrar should be in a position to compel the production of documents where they are held subject to a lien or encumbrances. That is...More Button

He has it already.More Button

We are dealing with trustees here, and it has always been the position that, in a case of this sort coming before him, the Registrar could assess the costs and determine them. Unless Deputy O'Higgins...More Button

That was Report Stage.More Button

I am learning all the time. Bill received for final consideration and passed.More Button

The Deputy has another victim now.More Button


Last Updated: 15/09/2010 21:06:39 First Page Previous Page Page of 90 Next Page Last Page