Ryan, Richie

Thursday, 27 November 1969

Dáil Eireann Debate
Vol. 242 No. 13

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Order of Business.

The House will be sitting until late in any event?More Button

Which no doubt includes questions? The Minister for Health and some other people will otherwise be in the House for 12 hours.More Button

Could we not agree to finish questions? I am sure two-and-a-half hours should be sufficient for 136 questions.More Button

Health Bill, 1969: Committee Stage (Resumed).

This section could be a useful one but it could also be one of the most dangerous in the Bill. It entitles the Minister for Health to give directions to any health board as to the manner in which ser...More Button

The Minister will be putting down an amendment on the next Stage?More Button

I should like to say how much we appreciate the Minister's offer to amend the section on Report Stage in order to provide for a local inquiry in the event of a proposal to close a local hospital. Tha...More Button

If I understand the Minister's amendment, the purpose of it is to take away from the Minister the regulation of the number and type of appointments of consultant medical staff and to give this power d...More Button

Yes, but there is no restriction here in relation to what the council may regulate. The council will regulate the number and type of appointments and, no doubt, the council will have regard to what t...More Button

I am in agreement with the Minister here. On reflection, Deputy Dr. Browne may find that he will defeat his object rather than achieve it were he to take away from health boards and confer on Comhair...More Button

I will not try to discuss that concept but it seems to me that some of what Deputy Dr. Browne has in mind might be achieved if, in the selection of personnel for Comhairle na nOspidéal, some appointme...More Button

Even the judiciary are not universally of that opinion.More Button

I am praying that some grammarian will say that it is all right to say “Comhairle na h-Ospidéal” instead of Comhairle na nOspidéal. Every time I say it I feel I am stuttering, a facility I had in inf...More Button

That will help, but it is essential that each selection is made by a group the composition of which is not known in advance.More Button

It is also most desirable that there should be outside assessors to advise. If this is done a great deal will have been achieved.More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Greek Government.

asked the Minister for External Affairs if he is aware of the serious public concern caused by the announcement by the official Athens newsagency that the present Greek Government believes that Irelan...More Button

As Ireland is now one of the principal promoters of a new draft recommendation calling for non-discrimination in relation to the exercise of a number of fundamental rights, would the Minister not cons...More Button

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Payment of Pension Increases.

asked the Minister for Finance why many elderly pensioners have not yet received the increases in pension promised as being operative from 1st August last; and how soon payment will be made to them.More Button

Health Bill, 1969: Committee Stage (Resumed).

I agree with what Deputy Clinton says. It is a very necessary administrative arrangement. I do not like the use of the word “controls” in subsection (7) (b). I do not think the word “controls” is us...More Button

We are very glad the Minister has met the objections which we voiced on Second Stage of this Bill in relation to this particular section. Our objection to the section at that stage was that it propos...More Button

It is proposed to dissolve the Hospitals Commission but I understand that the members of the commission receive some small fee for their services. Will the members of the comhairle receive like remun...More Button

What is the amount of the remuneration they receive and will it go to the comhairle?More Button

Some of the members of the Hospitals Commission have given very good service down the years. A number are, indeed, senior citizens. It might be rather unfair to them to withdraw, without some consider...More Button

I think we should not dissolve the Hospitals Commission without paying tribute on this occasion to the civic-minded people who, down the years, have served on this commission. It did great work in its...More Button

The trust.More Button

May I say that we welcome very warmly the transfer of the administration of the Central Mental Hospital to a health board. This is long overdue. It takes away from the criminal world the whole manag...More Button

I am glad that I have lent my voice to the representations made by the Department of Health. May I point out to the Minister that under subsection (4) the local health board will be unable to demolish...More Button

The fact that the amendments tabled by me on behalf of Fine Gael have been ruled out of order because they might constitute a charge on Central Funds is we believe the greatest justification there is ...More Button

The making of these regulations is welcome because it will remove the necessity for having applications processed. However, regulations have a tendency to be out of date. It is not known for regulat...More Button

Therefore, it is ten years out of date. In any case, it is accepted by many people now as being not in keeping with their requirements. Indeed, I had a reply to a recent Dáil question which pointed o...More Button

You do.More Button

The arguments which we advanced against section 43 are entirely applicable to this section also because this section purports to give satisfactory medical services to all the community whose means are...More Button

Could the Minister give, for the record now, the figure before 1958 and for how long it applied? If my memory serves me well, that figure was long overdue for amendment and that a decade or more pass...More Button

I move amendment No. 64: In subsection (1), page 25, lines 43 and 44, to delete “either another officer of the health board or a person not such an officer” and to substitute “a person who is not anot...More Button

I am very disappointed that the Minister has adopted this attitude. It is not unreasonable to assume that, where an application is turned down by any officer—even a junior officer of a health board—i...More Button

I hope that is what will happen in practice. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Section put and agreed to. SECTION 46. Question proposed: “That section 46 stand part of the Bill.”More Button

I think that fair objection can be taken to some of the forms now in existence in relation to the assessment of means. I have seen forms issued by health authorities to their officers who assess mean...More Button

With respect, I do not think it is reasonable. It might be reasonable for an officer to make a remark upon this form, but the question should not be specifically put to him to make a report on it. E...More Button

The old forms we used for the purpose of collecting information were in the nature of making a report upon the person's condition. My purpose in making this point is to ask that these forms asking fo...More Button

If one looks at the last few words of this section one finds: “The health authority may take such steps as it thinks fit to verify a declaration.” This seems to me to be the kind of steps which they m...More Button

The applicant would not see the form but the inspector would have it in his fist when he was coming into the home and would tick off “yes” and “no” as the case might be. I have seen these forms.More Button

I raised a question on Second Stage and, if my memory serves me right, I did not receive a reply to it at the conclusion, although the Minister mentioned by way of intervention at the time, that his e...More Button

I know they are. They do not go after their pound of flesh. What I am saying is that where the would-be beneficiaries of the estate have no moral claim on the estate it is fair enough for the local ...More Button

This section is one which allows the State to impose charges for hospitalisation. I think I am right in saying the reality of the situation is that the proportion of the hospitalisation costs recover...More Button

It costs up to 9/- to process the books and make the book-keeping entry for that payment. There is little point therefore in collecting 10/-. Most of these accounts are paid by instalments and there...More Button

Section 52 provides: A person entitled to avail himself of in-patient services under section 50 or the parent of a child entitled to allow the child to avail himself of such services may, if the perso...More Button

Has the Minister any further comment to make?More Button

In the case I have in mind—I cannot give the exact figures —let us produce hypothetical figures —it might cost £7 a week to keep a geriatric patient in a hospital in Dublin. It is usually a great dea...More Button

Will the subvention be at the same rate as that applicable in the public ward?More Button

It should not be less. We should again apply the principle I was endeavouring to clarify on the last section.More Button

Agreed by whom? Not by the patient probably. Amendment agreed to. Question proposed: “That section 53, as amended, stand part of the Bill”.More Button

If amendment No. 73 is agreed the other cannot be moved.More Button

Has the Minister any figures in mind as to what would be the appropriate charges for people in the higher income group for X-rays and so on, or how will the costings be determined?More Button

Would it be open to such people to look to the health authority for assistance in meeting the cost? By whom would the first decision be taken that a person is not eligible? Would it be by the hospit...More Button

May we take it the service will be rendered and the question of paying for it will be decided afterwards? It would be wrong that the service should be withheld until a cash payment was made.More Button

This is a very welcome amendment. We were disappointed there was no provision like this in the original Bill. I did advert to it in tabling an amendment, but the Minister got there before me, I am g...More Button

We find this section very disappointing because it does not include a subsection similar to the one tabled by me. The purpose of our amendment was to allow a person, in an emergency, to use an ambula...More Button

Without having to go to section 25 to enable the health authorities to make arrangements for providing ambulances or any other means of transport this could be done under section 55, subsection (1). ...More Button

At the moment one out of every three dispensary doctors is temporary. Some of these posts will have to be filled on a permanent basis because there are areas which are so remote from any area of subs...More Button

Eighteen is a very small drop in the ocean of 250. The Minister should go a great deal further. There are some areas where there will be only one doctor. It is practically impossible, short of a po...More Button

I imagine very few doctors would wish to keep an unwilling patient.More Button

On the other hand very few doctors would wish to receive a patient who was leaving another doctor. Question put and agreed to. SECTION 57.More Button

It would appear that this section enables the health board to refund actual expenses incurred by people obliged to purchase drugs and medicines and medical and surgical appliances. It seems to be in ...More Button

It will be in the nature of a refund then? Suppose a person gets credit from a chemist of say £10 and then says to the health authority: “Here is the chemist's bill for £10. You contribute £6 and I w...More Button

No, I should like to discuss it further the next day. Progress reported, Committee to sit again. The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Friday, 28th November, 1969.More Button


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