Desmond, BarryFriday, 30 July 1971 |
Dáil Eireann Debate
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There certainly can be. I have an amendment down, amendment No. 10, and the Taoiseach has specifically referred to that amendment. On a point of order——
I have not yet either moved or spoken on amendment No. 10 in my name. I am entitled to suggest to the Taoiseach, on the Order of Business, that he should no longer disgrace himself and his party—— (I...
The Taoiseach could quite easily resume the discussion of this Bill in the autumn. (Interruptions.)
In addition to the amendments there are the Report and the Fifth Stages and Jack Lynch is not going to dictate to us.
Adjourn the House and bring in the Bill next autumn. This Bill started in July, 1970.
The Bill was ordered in July, 1970. The Government will not ride roughshod over us.
We recognise the Chair's anxiety that we do not discuss any part of this Bill.
There is the Irish Press after that, and then the Irish Independent.
You should have adjourned the House until next October and told the Taoiseach to get lost and we would have more respect for you.
So did a number of bishops.
It is about time Deputy Sherwin spoke on this Bill.
He is not.
On a point of order, I think it is proper to put on record that the Minister for Justice has not put his nose inside this House——
Would the Leas-Cheann Comhairle agree that it is a curious discourtesy that——
——since 10.30 this morning the Minister has not seen fit to come into the House?
He has not been here. I have been here the whole time.
When Deputy Haughey was Minister for Justice he would not bring in a Bill like this. He would be too cute.
It is slowly becoming a tourist attraction.
The Taoiseach could adjourn it and start off again in October.
Deputy Haughey would get six months for giving them a turkey in Hume Street.
Why did the Minister order this Bill for this morning? We could have taken the College of Arts Bill.
Not in the least contemptuous.
Withdraw section 4 and you will have no comment whatever. (Interruptions.)
Withdraw section 4 and you will have no problem whatever.
Take your hands out of your pockets.
This is a reflection on the Chair.
Pompous little boy.
Having listened to the defence of this Bill from the Gauleiter of German Hitler Youth we can now proceed to point out a few simple truths to the Minister. The simple self-evident truth, to use his ow...
The exhibition that we have seen from the Minister this morning of autocratic reaction and of Hitler youthism gives very good reason why we should insist that this amendment be accepted. The Minister...
He has quoted sections from this editorial but I think it is proper that, as Deputy O'Connell did this morning in respect of an editorial from the Irish Times, I should be permitted the luxury of read...
The Minister quoted selectively various sections of this editorial that are in his favour. So bereft was he that he had to cajole Deputy Flor Crowley into doing some research for him, and we all know...
I quote: Consequent on the Government's Forcible Entry Bill, our daily newspapers have been kicking up a tremendous row these days over what is deemed to be an un-warranted curb on Press freedom. The ...
The intervention of the Southern Star in this debate must go on record.
As a Corkman representing another constituency I shall read the editorial in full. It continues: That the Irish censorship laws contain some provisions far more obnoxious than this proposed Forcible ...
The editorial continues:
The Minister has asked me——
Further on, the editorial says: That some newspapers were giving undue prominence to law-breaking of a certain type, to an extent verging on sensationalism, cannot be denied. The splashing of these s...
Since it was the Minister who started this argument——
The last paragraph of the editorial reads: The “freedom of the press”, of which we proudly boast, will flourish just as long as it is exercised with a due sense of responsibility by the profession of ...
All I can say is God save Ireland when the Minister for Justice has to depend exclusively on the Southern Star and the Skibbereen Eagle to advance his rejection of an amendment.
The Minister said he would not like to include as an amendment what he called self-evident truth. I can assure the Minister that the inclusion of the words “advocacy” and “encouragement” within this ...
I had been pointing out to the House the dirty origins of the words “encouragement” and “advocate.” The Pedigree belonged not to Limerick but to Castlebar. Before the former Minister for Justice, Dep...
We are discussing a very questionable offspring of the Criminal Justice Bill and the Minister knows this quite well. I was interested to note that the Minister sought the support of the now notorious...
It has become notorious overnight.
The Minister's notorious use of the Southern Star——
The notorious Southern Star and the notorious Skibbereen Eagle, both acting under the one editorship, are being used by the Minister. I notice he fell into one trap and Deputy Cruise-O'Brien will ela...
The Minister spoke at great length about what he called “the abuse of Parliament” by Opposition Deputies. I would say to the Minister that the example set by him, as a relatively young Deputy, to the...
The Minister raised the matter and I am entitled to comment. I would point out to the Minister the views of a former Taoiseach, a man for whom I had the highest respect and regard. He was a professio...
It is relevant because we are talking about censorship.
The former Taoiseach said——
It is disgraceful that Deputies opposite will not listen to the respected words of a former Taoiseach—— (Interruptions.)
Deputy Lemass stated: In a Censorship Bill it is always much easier to go too far than not to go far enough, and we ought to be very careful to see that there would be nothing in this Bill, which by g...
Page 205, Notes to Chapter II, Pages 39 to 46 of “Censorship” by Michael Adams. Remember the Fianna Fáil Party were then in Opposition and the late Seán Lemass spoke from the Opposition benches here ...
The Minister opened up the matter and I am merely replying. It is notable that since July, 1970, on the first day this Bill was taken in this House, the present Taoiseach has never spoken on it.
This is an important point to be made. He is allowing the Minister for Justice to deal exclusively with it and then, of course, he will ditch him when things get rough.
In a matter of such great importance as this Bill.
On a point of order, I want to reply to the Minister.
In no other parliament in Europe, where the guillotine is being used——
I challenged the Minister for Justice to put on record the reply which he sent to the Cork Examiner about the question of incitement. The Minister quoted from that letter on the 16th July, 1971, when...
I would point out to the Chair that it arises.
On what basis?
I would never impose that on the current occupant of the Chair. I have my own private views about the Ceann Comhairle.
Amendment No. 9 asks for the addition of: provided always and it is hereby declared that reasonable comment on a matter of public interest in any newspaper, magazine, periodical or book shall not cons...
The amendment proposes that reasonable comment should not constitute an offence under this section. I feel the failure of the Minister to accept such an amendment gives concern to the public. I feel...
I am commenting on what constitutes reasonable comment— newspapers, magazines, periodicals, books. I am commenting on a story which appeared in a book, The History of RTE, by Maurice Gorham. There w...
And he asked a question——
I am entirely in order. The amendment deals with newspapers, magazines, periodicals or books. Linnane asked during Question Time——
I think the Leas-Cheann Comhairle is being frustrated by the gauleiters of the Fianna Fáil back bench.
I have been trying to point out that all we are looking for in this amendment is appreciation of a free Press. Dáil Éireann has a unique responsibility to ensure that reasonable comment is protected...
All our amendment here says is that reasonable comment shall not constitute an offence under the section.
The Taoiseach and the Cabinet are so anxious to avoid any loss of face that they got an approach made to the Opposition to do a deal and I confirm for the Fianna Fáil back benchers in relation to the ...
I have named the Minister, first of all. I will go on record in this House as saying that the Minister attended a meeting of the three Whips and suggested a deal to the three Whips. Indeed, he said ...
That is absolutely untrue.
This House is supposed to be a deliberative assembly.
The function of Parliament is that of deliberation. The Fianna Fáil Party, by their tactics in the past two days, have shown that their sole conception of Parliamentary democracy is a one-party Gover...
I am saying in relation to the amendment that the Minister does not yet seem to appreciate that we live in a representative democracy, that we do not live in an authoritarian one-party State. There i...
In relation to reasonable coment by minorities, the Minister's conception of a newspaper does not extend beyond trying to crucify the United Irishman and this, of course, is the whole purpose of the B...
——some of them going to the extent of expelling or drowing the dissenting minority.
That is the reaction of the Fianna Fáil Party. I suggest, therefore, that——
——the Government should have another look at this amendment since they had another Cabinet meeting this morning. I do not think they will lose any more face than they have lost already by withdrawing...
One of the serious reactions to this amendment will be with regard to reasonable comment in the future in the whole of this island. It is quite tragic that at a time when we should not be adding grist...
This is what is proposed.
The intransigence of the Government in rejecting this amendment and the autocratic way in which they imposed the guillotine on previous amendments and are likely to impose it on this amendment——
I have not got the slightest doubt that it will give a considerable amount of comfort to the extremists North and South of the Border whose respect for Parliamentary democracy is most questionable and...
I am suggesting that if I repeat that statement outside this House——
The reference is column 2297 of the Official Report of 22nd July. I suggest that if, outside this House, I encourage the 14 exploited families in that house to demand back the deposit of £60 and——
What law?
If I denounce a landlord who has broken planning permission, who has been fined £10 and a couple of shillings a week on sanitary notices, and so on, and is making £100 a week out of the property——
The law, how are you! If I tell these families not to leave until they get their £60 deposit that will be held to be advocating and encouraging. (Interruptions.)
The only thing I can say is that Deputy Dowling is in no fit condition to talk here about property.
The Government are in an extremely difficult position trying to oppose this amendment.
For the benefit of the Fianna Fáil Party, I will now quote Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I do not think Deputy Dowling can quarrel with that particular declaration. In rel...
The Deputy should not be flippant when it comes to a universal declaration of human rights. There is one country which started on this road, the road on which Fianna Fáil are now starting in relation ...
I draw an analogy between this Bill and section 3 of the Official Secrets Act of 1956 in South Africa. It is an offence for any person to publish or communicate any information or material relating to...
The censorship extends to books, newspapers, pamphlets, magazines, periodicals, letterpress, printed matter, writing, drawing, printing, painting, picture engraving, lithographs, photograph cards, and...
——pressing for the rights of a minority in another part of this country and guillotining the Opposition here when they are fighting to preserve certain rights. The contrast is so obvious it does not ...
I had the weary job of reading the whole editorial.
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