Esmonde, John GrattanThursday, 19 June 1975 |
Dáil Eireann Debate
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Wealth Tax Bill, 1975: Committee Stage (Resumed).
Is the Deputy saying they are separated but that the deed had not been signed?
Would paragraph (c) not come in here also in the definition clause, if they are separated in such circumstances that the separation is likely to be permanent?
Paragraph (c) seems to cover it fairly fully.
It is 5th April every year.
It is not completely a man's world.
Under the power of appointment.
That is the exercise of the discretion.
We are giving equal benefit to each object and equal threshold.
“and section 3 shall, in lieu of subsection (1), apply to such property...” Those people can go back to the subsection that we have gone through on the basis of a like limited interest and once back t...
It is a way of measuring the relief so as to give it to the greatest number.
That is what is done in all trusts where you are dealing with minor children. The trust arrange things.
That is what will be done.
What are the good reasons to which the Deputy is referring? Is he referring to specific situations or specific categories?
There is provision already, for instance, in section 3, which provides for the family situation——
Yes. What other situations is the Deputy thinking of?
I have not studied the question of the private non-trading company. I am dealing with discretionary trusts, but I imagine it would be the same——
Yes, but let us deal with the discretionary trust for the moment. I take it the same thing would apply here. What are the situations?
A business situation?
There would probably be a saving on income tax anyway.
It is not quite correct to say they are definitely liable for death duties because it would depend on who was paid income from the discretionary trust in the five years before the death of one of the ...
That would not be a discretionary trust. That would be a loan trust with a fixed payment per year.
There were other objects that could have benefited but they were not given the benefit.
On that point, Deputy Colley's Finance Act made inroads in bringing discretionary trusts within the death duty code; this is on the basis of the average income taken over a period of years of any part...
Most unusual.
If that was the way it was done, but that was not the way people did it.
Why were other objects of the trust put in if it was just paid to the widow? That is what I cannot understand.
It was a very badly drawn scheme if it was.
I find it very difficult to understand how a private non-trading company would come into the circumstances which the Deputy describes. It is usually in conjunction with a trust. It is usual for the p...
All I can say is that I was always averse to using the non-trading company for tax avoidance schemes. I was aware that it was used for those purposes, but it was mainly an accountant's invention, an ...
I agree with the Deputy that all discretionary trusts are not, but I find it very hard in relation to a non-trading company to accept that.
It was greatly peddled around Dublin.
The Deputy is saying that the objects are in the State.
Do they pay income tax?
If the Deputy does not know where it is coming from how does he know it is in a discretionary trust? Therefore, he puts himself back to section 3 and it might be treated as an annuity or limited inte...
It is in the VAT Act.
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