Finance Bill, 1980:First Stage.Tuesday, 29 April 1980 |
Dáil Eireann Debate
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Leave granted to introduce a Bill entitled an Act to charge and impose certain duties of customs and inland revenue (including excise), to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provisions in connection with finance.
Mr. P. Barry:
When will the Bill be circulated?
Mr. O'Kennedy:
On 6 May, 1980.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
When is it proposed to take Second Stage?
Minister for Finance (Mr. O'Kennedy):
On Tuesday, 13 May.
Mr. Mitchell:
On a point of order, you were good enough to allow the discussion to be re-opened to have the letter read.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
That matter is closed. There is no point of order.
Mr. Mitchell:
The letter was not completely read. The Minister has repeated allegations. We want the whole letter read. The Taoiseach intervened to stop the Minister reading the letter.
Mr. G. FitzGerald: The Taoiseach did not intervene.
Mr. Mitchell:
He waved the Minister down.
[131]An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The business of the House must continue. Deputy Mitchell will resume his seat.
Mr. Mitchell:
I have a point of order.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Chair has asked the Deputy to resume his seat. We are now dealing with the Finance Bill.
Mr. Mitchell:
On a point of order——
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Deputy is dealing with a matter which has been disposed of.
Mr. Mitchell:
Standing Orders oblige you to allow me to make a point of order.
Mr. Keating:
This is a very sordid episode.
Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick:
(Cavan-Monaghan): On a point of order. It arises out of the last matter but I want to submit that it is a point of order. You gave permission for a letter to be read. The Minister for Labour started to read that letter. Before he completed reading that short letter which seemed harmless, there was some noise in the House and the letter was not completed.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Chair has ruled that we cannot reopen a matter which has been disposed of.
Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick:
(Cavan-Monaghan): I am drawing the Chair's attention to this.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Chair has been too lenient in this whole matter.
Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick:
(Cavan-Monaghan): Since then the Minister for Labour has implied that there was something in the letter which he did not read out and he implied that it was to the discredit of the Leader of this Party. I want that put right.
[132]An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
We will move on now.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Chair has heard so many allegations from its right in the past few minutes that it will not go back on that matter. The Finance Bill, please.
Mr. O'Toole:
My name has been mentioned here in a derogatory manner. It has been alleged that I acted improperly. I challenge the Minister of State, who is a townsman of my own, to read that letter.
Mr. L'Estrange:
And the hundreds he wrote in similar circumstances.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
We are now dealing with the Finance Bill.
Mr. O'Toole:
My name has been mentioned as having acted improperly in writing a letter at some stage to the Minister's Department.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Deputy has other ways and means of raising that matter.
Mr. O'Toole:
This matter has been raised in the House and I insist that it be dealt with now.
Mr. P. Barry:
When you agreed to have this letter read, the implication was that the total letter would be read and not part of it. That has not been done.
Mr. G. Fitzgerald:
Because the Deputy could not keep his mouth shut.
Mr. P. Barry:
Read it now. The Minister has been flushed out.
Mr. G. Fitzgerald:
It has misfired.
Mr. G. Fitzgerald:
Do not talk to me about bluff.
[133]Mr. O'Toole:
As somebody whose name has been mentioned in the House I am now asking the Minister of State to read that letter to the House.
Minister of State at the Department of the Public Service (Mr. Calleary):
May I read the letter?
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The same type of innuendos and allegations have been made. If the Minister of State wishes to read that letter he has the permission of the Chair to do so. Of course we are now dealing with the Finance Bill.
Mr. Keating:
You are establishing a precedent.
Mr. G. Fitzgerald:
Which is it to be?
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
That finishes it now.
Mr. Mitchell:
Read the two letters.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Chair will adjourn the House if necessary.
Mr. Calleary:
Does Deputy O'Toole want the letter read out?
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
Deputy O'Toole has demanded that his letter should be read out since it was mentioned. Does he want it read out?
Mr. O'Toole:
I have asked on at least three occasions in the past three minutes to have it read out because I am prepared to stand over what I have written.
Mr. Calleary:
The letter was written on 15 March 1976 to Deputy Richie Ryan, Minister for Finance, and reads:
Dear Richie, I am making representations to you on behalf of —— Claremorris, County Mayo. As you know he is Chairman of the Fine Gael District Executive in Claremorris and one of our staunch [134] supporters there for many years. There now exists a vacancy for —— through the Civil Service in the town and I would strongly urge that—— be given this post. I would be greatly disappointed if any from the opposition succeeded in this position. Looking forward to hearing from you.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
That will do. We have finished with it now.
Mr. L'Estrange:
Did he get the job? Did the man get the job?
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Deputy is completely out of order.
Mr. L'Estrange:
If he did not get the job that shows there was nothing underhand or corrupt in it.
Mr. L'Estrange:
I guarantee that under Fianna Fáil he would get the job whether or not he was fit for the position.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Chair does not want to adjourn the House but will do so if it has to. We are now dealing with the Order for Second Stage of the Finance Bill.
Mr. L'Estrange:
The man did not get the job.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
When will the Second Stage of the Finance Bill be taken?
Mr. O'Kennedy:
On Tuesday, 13 May.
Mr. O'Toole:
A letter has been read out in my name. I now ask the Minister of State to say whether or not the person mentioned in that letter got the job.
Mr. Calleary:
The Minister of State has not got that information.
[135]Mr. L'Estrange:
That is completely untrue. The Minister of State knows he did not get the job.
Mr. O'Toole:
Did the man mentioned in the letter get the job?
Mr. O'Toole:
Did the man mentioned in that letter get the job? Deputy O'Toole's name has been dragged in the mud in this House by a colleague from the same town and I should like to know if the man mentioned in that letter got the job.
Mr. Calleary:
The Deputy is not the one who asked for this; his leader asked for it.
Mr. O'Toole:
I also asked for it. Did the man mentioned get the job?
Mr. O'Toole:
The Minister of State does not want to know.
Mr. Calleary:
The information is not on my file.
Mr. O'Toole:
Will the Minister of State find out this information for me?
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
That finishes the debate on that matter. I have already called Item No. 1, the Finance Bill.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
When is it proposed to take the Second Stage of the Finance Bill?
Minister for Finance (Mr. O'Kennedy):
On 13 May. The Bill will be circulated on 6 May and not before that.
Second Stage ordered for Tuesday, 13 May 1980.
[136]An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
We are now moving on to No. 8 on the Order Paper, Packaged Goods (Quantity Control) Bill, 1980.
Mr. Mitchell:
Tomorrow we will have land zoning corruption.
Mr. O'Toole:
The Minister of State can collect his votes.
Mr. Mitchell:
Everyday will have something about corruption.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
Deputy Mitchell should leave the House and cease interrupting business.
Mr. Mitchell:
As a Fine Gael member I will leave the House because there is corruption widespread in the country, in the Civil Service, the police and in land zoning in County Dublin.
Mr. L'Estrange:
A Commissioner of the Garda was sacked because he was doing his duty and would not promote Fianna Fáil men.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
I want the House to move on to Item No. 8.
Mr. Meaney:
What about the piebald——
Mr. L'Estrange:
Anything I sold was my own and I bought again. Nobody belonging to me ever robbed banks or anything like that. Anything I had was my own. I sold and bought as good a farm again and I am still there.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Deputy should permit the business of the House to continue.
Mr. L'Estrange:
I never robbed a bank to get the money to buy that farm or anything like that.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
We have heard enough from the Deputy.
Mr. L'Estrange:
Many of that party in the early days of the State did so when [137] they murdered and shot good Irishmen and were in league with the IRA.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
We must move on to the Bill.
Mr. Bruton:
The Minister of State should stick to the Packaged Goods Bill.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
This sort of carry-on is a disgrace to the House and to Deputy L'Estrange.
Mr. L'Estrange:
And to you, Sir.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Deputy should not make any charges against the Chair.
Mr. Bruton:
The Chair should not make charges against Deputy L'Estrange.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
Deputy L'Estrange has been disgraceful for the last 30 minutes.
Mr. L'Estrange:
Fianna Fáil Governments have been disgraceful for years. What about the £100,000 that was misappropriated? Was that not a disgraceful action on behalf of the Fianna Fail Government?
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
It is not good enough that the Deputy should interrupt the business of the House every time he enters the Chamber.
Mr. L'Estrange:
It was not good enough that they took that money to buy guns to murder fellow Irishmen.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
Does the Deputy wish to be put out of the House?
Mr. L'Estrange:
I will go of my own accord.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Deputy's conduct is disgraceful.
Mr. L'Estrange:
They embezzled [138] £100,000 of taxpayers' money to murder fellow Irishmen.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:
The Deputy should leave the House.
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