Wilson, John P.

Tuesday, 27 May 1980

Dáil Eireann Debate
Vol. 321 No. 5

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The National Institute for Higher Education, Limerick, Bill, 1980: Committee Stage (resumed).

I was pointing out that the procedure in the Bill as drafted gives more flexibility and does not impose restrictions as the amendment would. The Bill covers representations from the regional technica...More Button

The fact that in (f) and (g) of section 5 (4) there are four people from the regional technical college sector, two from the teaching staff and two from the management board is a sound representation ...More Button

I move amendment No. 22 (a): In page 4, subsection (5), line 44, to delete “the appointment” and substitute “appointment”. This is a drafting amendment. Amendment agreed to. Question proposed: “That s...More Button

Deputy Collins said he wanted to protest at the structure of the governing body. Any fair-minded person, having a look at the range and the interests covered in section 5, subsections (4) and (5), wo...More Button

Clearly, the section provides that the governing body will be the controlling authority of the institute, having full authority in the institute and managing the affairs of the institute. The point ...More Button

I should like to refer back to paragraph (c) of subsection (1) of section 4 and to point out that the very important words, “after consultation with an tÚdarás um Ard Oideachais” are included there to...More Button

If I thought that the inter-pretation could be put upon this which Deputy Collins is putting on it, I would; but I do not admit that at all. It is not envisaged that there will be any interference. A...More Button

It is the duty of a spokesman to raise all kinds of spectres, oligarchic or otherwise, but I am not so sure that the House should be as concerned as the Deputies claim it should be with this. Deputy ...More Button

——on Second Stage.More Button

Deputy Collins talked about three names coming up to the Minister being the procedure. Of course, that is not true at all. The practice has not been of three names coming to the Minister, in making ...More Button

I envisage the procedure as being one where, for example as I mentioned, a formal advertisement would appear. In 99 cases out of a 100 the activity would be purely formal. The Minister would examine...More Button

As I said to the House on a number of occasions, I envisaged the NIHE, Limerick, and NIHE, Dublin, later on, to develop and grow, particularly in size. As I have stated time and time again, I envisag...More Button

I move amendment No. 27: In page 5, subsection (1), line 37, to delete “Board” and substitute “Council”. Amendment agreed to.More Button

As the National Institute will be dealing at this level, the academic level, with a highly sophisticated area, I think it is only correct that the academic council should consist of the people who are...More Button

What I said was that the academic council would be dealing at a very highly sophisticated level in so far as the materia academica is concerned, as regards what is being taught and developed. I was n...More Button

Section 8 (1) clearly gives the governing body power to appoint the academic council. There is nothing in the Bill which restricts that power. If the governing body in their wisdom decide on a forma...More Button

I would like to reiterate what I said about section 8. Amendment No. 28 by Deputy Horgan asks for the insertion of the following new subsection: In appointing the Academic Board the Governing Body sh...More Button

I would like to make a final point. It seems to me that Deputy Horgan has not much confidence in the governing body. I have no reason to believe that the governing body of the NIHE in Limerick will ...More Button

I move amendment No. 29:More Button

The Deputy is seeking to transfer the statement of the functions of the council to a new schedule. The first and second schedules are concerned mainly with procedural matters. The section referred t...More Button

I move amendment No. 31: In page 5, subsection (3), line 44, to delete “Board” and substitute “Council”. Amendment agreed to.More Button

I move amendment No. 32: In page 6, subsection (4), line 20, to delete “Board” and substitute “Council”. Amendment agreed to.More Button

I move amendment No. 33: In page 6, subsection (4), line 25, to delete “Board” and substitute “Council”. Amendment agreed to.More Button

I move amendment No. 34: In page 6, between lines 29 and 30, to insert the following subsection: “(5) The acts of a committee established under subsection (4) (a) of this section shall be subject to c...More Button

The governing body appoints the academic council and the academic council then goes on to appoint its own committees. That is a very sound type of chain of command or administration. The governing bo...More Button

Before this in amendment No. 23 the Deputy wanted to delete “unless the Governing Body dispenses with the necessity for such confirmation”. I fail to see, when the Deputy urged that acts of the commit...More Button

I move amendment No. 35:More Button

There seems in the train of thought of Deputy Collins an effort to impinge on the realm or bailiwick of the governing body. That is not proper to the Bill. The governing body should have the maximum...More Button

More restrictive or less restrictive? Question put and agreed to. SECTION 9.More Button

The formula is, just as is the case with what Deputy Horgan referred to at the end of his contribution, the usual convention but I do not think it will carry the meaning that Deputy Horgan thinks it ...More Button

The Parliamentary Draftsman advises me—and I specifically consulted him on them—that they are, because they are used in this type of context. As the Deputy knows, legal people always are very sensiti...More Button

I am quite happy. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.More Button

The main purpose of the subsection is to protect the staff. It is a very serious business to dismiss the director or a member of the staff of the institute. I agree that, as Deputy Horgan said, the ...More Button

I move amendment No. 42:More Button

Yes. It will read: “There shall be paid by the Institute to its officers (including the Director) and servants such remuneration and allowances as it, subject to the approval of the Minister given wi...More Button

Yes.More Button

The effect will be to remove any restriction from a member of the Institute's staff from becoming a Member of either House of the Oireachtas or of the Assembly of the European Communities. As the Hou...More Button

I cannot accept the amendment. We had a discussion earlier in more philosophical terms dealing with the position of such institutes in relation to their administration by the Department of the Public...More Button

The money is disbursed from the Department of Education. The HEA advise the Minister for Education on the matter. As the Deputy knows, there is a global form covering current and capital financing o...More Button

The answer is yes, through the statutes. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.More Button

I move amendment No. 45: In page 7, lines 6 to 37, to delete subsections (6) and (7). Amendment agreed to.More Button

The House will recall that the wording is similar to that used in the NCEA Act of 1979 where we had a similar situation with existing staff and the question of their being transferred. The director is...More Button

Article 1 of the Second Schedule states that he shall control and direct the staff of the institute. It is appropriate to include the director in this subsection. As the House will understand, there...More Button

There is no conflict. It is easy to see how the director would need that kind of authority in the ordinary day-to-day running of the institute. For instance, there might be two lecturers in mechanic...More Button

If we deleted subsection (4) (a) and (b) there could be a doubt as to whether the institute could make any redistribution of duties of the staff. It would also leave open the question as to whether a...More Button

Subsection (2) (b) referred to by the Deputy covers the ordinary contract. It is quite clear.More Button

I do not think it is necessary for this detailed annual report to be laid before each House of the Oireachtas. As the Deputy knows, in section 14 the annual accounts of the institute will be tabled. ...More Button

I would like to reiterate what I said, that in the normal context of the words “public accountability” we think of accountability for moneys funded through the Houses of the Oireachtas. As I stated, ...More Button

I can see that the Dáil Library should have a copy of them. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Section 12 agreed to. Sections 13 and 14 agreed to. NEW SECTION.More Button

I move amendment No. 57: In page 9, before section 15, to insert the following section: “15.—The Institute may charge fees or admission charges of such amounts as may from time to time be determined b...More Button

This is a drafting amendment for the purposes of clarification.More Button

I think the Deputy is wandering, ar seachrán.More Button

By way of comment on the contributions in respect of amendment No. 57, the actual words in which the amendment is cast may irritate Deputy Horgan who refuses to see me in the role of somebody who is h...More Button

I know that the Deputy would like to be kindly towards me but the fact is that for a designated institution the Higher Education Authority consult with the institution and with the Minister for Educat...More Button

It signifies considerable support for a very important institute.More Button

I was not aware that we were discussing the funding of the regional technical colleges.More Button

The Deputy has drawn in extraneous matter. I reiterate that if you want a classic example of commitment in funding and expenditure to a higher educational institute in this country, you should go to ...More Button

Funding will be such, I repeat, that there will not be high fees. I also repeat that our fees for third-level institutions here are extremely low, by comparison with those of other countries. I do no...More Button

Briefly, the Minister is full owner of all the assets and rights of the ad hoc institute. Consequently, he carries full responsibility for contract. He carries full responsibility for legal proceedin...More Button

The provision which Deputy Collins makes in this amendment is not necessary.More Button

The Deputy will note my modesty with regard to my position.More Button

Quickly, this amendment is unnecessary because section 59 of the Finance Act of 1958 reads: Stamp duty shall not be chargeable on any instrument (including an instrument executed but not stamped befor...More Button

Is the Deputy talking about bequests and gifts in the future?More Button

As of now, the property is the property of the Minister and is covered fully by section 59 of the Finance Act.More Button

Provision is made in section 2 for the Irish title and if the Deputy examines other legislation he will see that it is not the practice to quote the Irish title again in the English version of the Act...More Button

It is following tradition. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Section agreed to. FIRST SCHEDULE.More Button

I move amendment No. 65: In page 10, to delete lines 7 to 23, and substitute the following: “1. (1) As soon as may be after the commencement of this Act, the Governing Body shall provide and retain i...More Button

Yes, section 2 will enact that the institute will be united legally into a body empowered to act as one individual. It is not necessary to give similar status to the governing body. The term “institu...More Button

The amendment is not acceptable in that it would seem to be the logical course that the appointing agency should also be the agency capable of removing the appointee from office. A two-thirds majorit...More Button

The point that has escaped Deputies is that there is an upper age limit but there is no indication that the Minister would refuse to appoint somebody who is 20 years of age. There is simply an upper ...More Button

Governments do not have whims. The Government will not take any action which would not be soundly based and dereliction of duty would be one and probably the most important reason for the removal fro...More Button

Written Answers. - School Sports Hall Provision.

It was not found possible to include Swords (Castlefarm) Vocational School in the list of schools at which I have already approved the provision of physical education halls. I am not in a position at...More Button

Written Answers. - School Extension Plans.

The feasibility of providing the additional accommodation required at Loughshinny on the existing site is being examined. A report in the matter has been requested from the Commissioners of Public Wor...More Button

Written Answers. - Balbriggan (County Dublin) Boys' Education.

Approval has been given for the provision of a new co-educational national school on the north side of the town of Balbriggan. Second level education for boys in Balbriggan is provided mainly by the v...More Button

Written Answers. - Mayo New Schools.

The contract has not yet been placed for the building of the new Achill Vocational School. The tender documentation is being considered in my Department and a decision in relation to the placing of a...More Button

A report is awaited from the Commissioners of Public Works as to the suitability of the site offered for the proposed new school at Binghamstown, It is anticipated that the report will be available in...More Button

Written Answers. - Metalwork and Woodwork Teaching.

The information as requested by the Deputy is not available to my Department. Information is not furnished in the school records as to the extent of the utilisation of individual classrooms in the di...More Button

A pupil-teacher ratio of 16.5:1 is allowed in vocational schools and one of 19:1 in secondary schools. My Department is satisfied that the ratio applied to secondary schools is adequate to cope with ...More Button

Written Answers. - Second Level School Recognition.

There is no such category of second level school as a voluntary community school under regulations of the Department of Education. A secondary school can continue to qualify for recognition only for...More Button

Written Answers. - School Costs.

Estimates of cost as requested in the question are not available to my Department. Allocations of funds are made to the vocational education committees by committee and not by schools. Capitation and...More Button

Written Answers. - National School Classrooms.

I understand that work on the building of the new classrooms will commence before 31 May.More Button

Tenders for a contract in connection with an extension to Culfoda national school are at present being examined by the Office of Public Works in consultation with my Department. A decision in relatio...More Button

Written Answers. - National School Pupil Numbers.

The average enrolment at this school was 98.5 for the quarter ended 31 March 1980. Average enrolment is calculated and made available to the Department on a quarterly basis.More Button

Written Answers. - National School Pupil-Teacher Ratio.

In order to warrant the appointment of a fourth teacher in a national school an average enrolment of 115 pupils would need to be secured as specified in Rule 88 (3) of the Rules for National Schools. ...More Button

Written Answers. - Prefabricated Classrooms.

Plans to replace the prefabricated classrooms in use at the schools listed in the Deputy's question have not yet passed the stage of completion of working drawings.More Button

The information requested is as follows:More Button

The information requested is as follows:More Button

Written Answers. - Abbeylands (Navan) New National School.

Five tenders were submitted by the architect to the Commissioners of Public Works on 15 January 1980 for the proposed new national school at Abbeylands, Navan, County Meath. The tenders have since bee...More Button


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