Fitzpatrick, Thomas J.Thursday, 26 May 1983 |
Dáil Eireann Debate
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The position is that unless there is an order of the House discharging the part of the order which has already been made and agreeing to extend the sections which were to be dealt with not later than ...
The whole position will have to be reviewed then, because this will involve subsequent changes.
There are consequential adjustments. They will have to be agreed and announced before 12.30 p.m.
Finance Bill, 1983: Committee Stage (Resumed).
The Minister for Finance is in possession.
The Chair suggests that we do not have any interruptions today.
I am putting the question: “That section 10 stand part of the Bill.”
This is a matter for the Whips. It is certainly not a matter for the Chair.
On Committee Stage a Deputy can speak as often as he wishes.
I concede that. Does Deputy Bruton persist in wishing to speak?
I will not accept that. The Chair has discretion.
It is only a very short time since four or five Deputies offered on this very item and something has happened in the meantime. I would suggest that if we are to curtail speakers the Whips should meet...
I rose to put the question on the basis——
I cannot help that.
The Chair was putting the question in order to jolly the thing along and that is the traditional way of doing it.
I resent that.
I am calling Deputy Bruton, if he wishes to speak.
If that is meant as a reflection or criticism of the Chair I must ask Deputy Brady to withdraw it.
If either Deputy Brady or Deputy Haughey is criticising the Chair he will withdraw.
Order, the Chair is standing. When the Chair stands everybody else should sit down. (Interruptions.)
The Minister will please sit down. Question put. The Dáil divided: Tá 75; Níl, 67. Tá
Business of Dáil.
The proposal is that the order made on 24 May stands but with the alterations as set out by the Minister of State.
I understand that the business will proceed within the timetable proposed and that at 4.30 p.m. those sections in the group 1 to 46 which have not been dealt with will be dealt with at that time by wa...
That is so, but it is a big improvement on what happened down through the years when there was no breakdown and when, instead of taking small groups of sections together, up to three quarters of the B...
The Chair would venture to say that he considers what is happening now to be a big improvement on the type of procedure used in other years to bring the finance legislation to a conclusion. In this r...
Every Deputy should realise that we are now working within a very tight timetable and no Deputy should abuse the procedures. Question put and agreed to.
Finance Bill 1983: Committee Stage (Resumed).
I do not wish to interrupt the Deputy, but I should like to remind all Deputies that this is not a Second Stage debate. It is a Committee Stage debate. We cannot have a broad general debate. If we ...
There is a very thin line between Second and Committee Stages, but I would appeal to Deputies not to make Second Stage speeches. Because of the nature of the section with which we are dealing it is di...
I must tell Deputies that I have a guide, or sort of yardstick, which I will have to use in calling Deputies, if I am to be fair. At least I will have to guide myself and I propose doing that from so...
My difficulty is that we are dealing with four sections together and one of these sections abolishes the threshold and brings thousands of farmers into the tax net for the first time. In my opinion t...
I am afraid we are reverting again to a Second Stage debate.
Strictly speaking, that is not a point of order. The Chair can only rely on Deputies to be reasonable. There are largely just two parties involved and both have their Whips and it is up to them to ma...
Order.
I stopped Deputy McCartin at that stage.
The Deputy should come back to income tax.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Dungarvan Unemployed.
That is a separate question for another Minister.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Rent Increases.
Any question about the courts or the way in which they are operated would be a separate matter. The question is about the people who have had their rents increased.
It is still a separate question.
Let the Minister answer.
Question No. 25 asks for this information.
The Deputy must ask a question.
I am calling Deputy B. Ahern and then Deputy Brady, and will move to the next question.
That is not the responsibility of this Minister; it is the responsibility of the Minister for Justice.
Order.
Order, please. These late nights do not appear to be agreeing with some Deputies. Perhaps some of them should have a rest.
Deputy Molony should keep out of it.
The Chair did not hear Deputy Molony make any allegation and I am calling the next question.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Social Welfare Benefits.
A question, Deputy, please.
This is more of a speech, Deputy.
That is a separate question.
The Deputy is abusing Question Time. That is quite clear.
I have a feeling — perhaps I am wrong — that the Deputy may be going to question the policy involved.
May I express the wish that the Deputy is not going to question the policy of charging free lodgings? That would be getting into policy issues.
This is a question dealing with a specific case.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Rent Allowances.
This seems to be a repeat of what Deputy Gerard Brady has said.
This seems to be another question.
It does not arise on the question that was tabled.
The fixing of rents is not a matter for the Minister for Social Welfare.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Social Welfare Payments.
That does not arise.
The remaining questions will appear on next Tuesday's Order Paper.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
Business of Dáil.
I know Deputy Ahern is very busy, but he might consider either staying here or putting in an odd appearance.
We are wasting time now.
Finance Bill, 1983: Committee Stage (Resumed).
Deputy M. Brennan on sections 11 to 14 inclusive.
The Minister without interruption. This is wasting time.
I must now put the omnibus motion.
I imagine he was speaking of a situation where section 16 was finalised before 4.30 p.m.
When the Leader of the Opposition hears the question I am putting, it will be quite clear.
We cannot do that.
I am taking Part I of the Bill. As it is now 4.30 p.m. I must, in accordance with the order made——
I will read paragraph (iv) of the order of the House: the proceedings on the Committee Stage of the Finance Bill, 1983, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion in accordance with...
No, we did not.
No——
Deputy Haughey should not refer to “other people”.
Deputy Haughey has the floor.
I ask Deputy Haughey to listen to me. My understanding, interpretation and ruling is that at 4.30 p.m. I must put the omnibus motion and I propose to do it.
Yes, but do not delay.
No, the discussion is over.
I am going to put a question.
Deputies are wasting time.
The leader of your party made that point clearly and well and I have dealt with it. As it is now 4.30 p.m. I must, in accordance with the order made by the Dáil on 24 May, as amended by order made to...
On Report Stage.
The Chair cannot see the relevancy of the Deputy's intervention.
I am sorry to interrupt——
I am sorry to interrupt. I just want to remind the Deputies that at 5.30 p.m. I shall be putting an omnibus question to the House dealing with sections 47 to 65 inclusive.
Unless Deputy Mitchell gives way, he should be allowed continue without interruption.
Deputy Mitchell, without interruption.
This is a limited debate.
The Deputy should relate his remarks to the two sections.
That is not a point of order. These non-points of order are very obstructive and disorderly.
As it is now 5.30 p.m. I am, in accordance with the order made on 24 May, as amended by the order made today, putting the following question: “That the amendments set down by the order made today, pu...
You asked a question, Deputy, and I will tell you, not today, but the Deputy might find machinery to say something on them next week.
Deputy Leonard, you are a reasonable man and a very orderly Deputy. I am sure you do not know that an order was made ordering me to do what I have just done and there is nothing I can do about it. S...
If it is a point of order, yes, but I would have my doubts.
That is not a point of order, Deputy.
They were, yes.
It has not been customary for the last 20 years to have explanatory memoranda with amendments.
The Deputy will have to find another opportunity for raising that.
Do Deputies realise that they are wasting their own limited time? Question put and agreed to. SECTION 67.
Amendment No. 63 in the name of the Minister. Amendments Nos. 64 and 75 are related. Numbers 63, 64 and 75 may be taken together by agreement.
Certainly, Deputy.
Amendments Nos. 68, 69, 70 and 71 are consequential on amendment No. 65. Therefore we will take amendments Nos. 65, 68, 69, 70 and 71 by agreement. If amendment No. 65 falls, amendment Nos. 68, 69, ...
Yes, we will take it then.
Amendments Nos. 65, 66, 68, 69, 70 and 71.
The Chair has to be very careful.
The Deputy has addressed that assertion to me a number of times today. This is in accordance with Standing Orders. However, if it would be helpful to the Deputy, there is nothing to prevent him maki...
We are dealing with sections 66 to 78.
Yes.
They will not go through the net, Deputy.
Is that agreeable to the Minister?
We are taking sections Nos. 79, 80, 81 and 82 together.
As it is 9 p.m. I must, in accordance with the order made by the Dáil on 24 May, as amended by the order made today, put the following question: “That the sections undisposed of in Part IV are hereby ...
Amendments Nos. 78 and 80 are cognate and may be taken together, by agreement.
We can deal with it when we come to it. The question is being put at 10.30 tonight to dispose of this group of sections and amendments.
If it is not reached by 10.30 it will not be put. Only amendments in the name of the Minister will be put at 10.30. If that amendment is reached before 10.30 we will consider what the position is.
We are dealing with amendment No. 79.
The only amendment before the House now is amendment No. 79.
Amendment No. 79 is the only amendment before the House but I am sure that Deputy O'Malley will be able to make his speech and say what he wants to say.
Would Deputy O'Kennedy like to tell me what amendments he would like to have discussed together?
All the amendments, in the name of Deputy O'Kennedy, to section 83.
Deputy O'Malley made his speech without one word of interruption. He should let the Minister reply.
Deputy O'Kennedy must restrain himself and allow the Minister to make his speech.
Amendment No. 88 in the names of Deputy Mac Giolla and Deputy De Rossa has been ruled out of order. Amendment No. 89 in the name of the Minister.
Order. If Deputies want to have a chat would they please select some other part of the House?
There are quite a few sections to be amended and the House is meeting tomorrow. The House can do as the Deputy suggests if it likes but it would be chaotic and I think we should first of all deal wit...
The Chair will allow a reasonable amount of latitude.
I have been trying to pay attention to Deputy Kelly to detect how near or how far he was from the amendment before the House. When I was in the Chair last I stated that I would give some latitude but ...
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