Noonan, MichaelTuesday, 12 June 1984 |
Dáil Eireann Debate
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Criminal Justice Bill, 1983: Committee Stage (Resumed).
Limerick East): I cleared the letter just before I came into the House.
(Limerick East): I have a letter on the way to Deputy De Rossa. The records relate to offences for which the Garda have obtained sufficient evidence to prefer charges, not just ones in which the Garda...
(Limerick East): I dealt with most of the points raised the last day. Deputy Woods mentioned many points about the circumstances in which people can be refused bail at present. It only happens in a ...
(Limerick East): Thank you. Has the Deputy come back in?
(Limerick East): Is the Deputy staying for the day today or will he be canvassing?
(Limerick East): There is a difficulty about explaining things to people who come and go.
(Limerick East): The sentences will be consecutive under a variety of circumstances.
(Limerick East): It is the intention. It sometimes happens that offences are not dealt with in the courts in the order in which they were committed. The Deputy seems to pre-suppose that offences will...
(Limerick East): They could. I am asking the Dáil to make it obligatory on the court to impose consecutive sentences.
(Limerick East): That is why there is a liberal introducing this legislation.
(Limerick East): The Deputy is all talk and no action.
(Limerick East): I ask the Deputy to withdraw that remark. The implication of that is that I am giving the House figures which are not accurate. I have given the House a figure and I have given the ...
(Limerick East): On a point of order I would like that withdrawn. Deputy Skelly argues, on the one hand, that he cannot get statistics and, on the other hand, he argues that when he gets them they are...
(Limerick East): To contribute further to the numbers game, in 1980 some 5,145 offences were committed on bail; in 1981 the figure was 7,310; in 1982 it was 7,880 and in 1983 it was 8,295. The Garda ...
(Limerick East): That only applies in the District Court. They have no discretion in other courts.
(Limerick East): Deputy O'Dea was in general agreement with this section. Deputy Woods talked in terms of other options which could be considered and mentioned that the courts could attach conditions...
(Limerick East): I accept your ruling. I was replying to specific points raised. Deputy De Rossa asked about the average sentencing in the District Court. The maximum sentence which can be imposed ...
(Limerick East): I submit that we are going round in circles at this stage.
(Limerick East): On a point of order, a Cheann Comhairle, you ruled me out of order already when I was dealing with the question of prison space.
(Limerick East): The question of being caught red-handed arises from a consideration of whether a person would be likely to abscond or not. The pre-supposition would be that if somebody was caught red...
(Limerick East): But it is not a separate issue.
(Limerick East): To a great extent we have discussed section 10 in the context of section 9. Section 5 of the Criminal Justice Act, 1951 (No. 2), provides that where the District Court imposes consec...
(Limerick East): Ten years.
(Limerick East): The Association of Criminal Lawyers misread the section. They argued against the section as if there was a general provision to increase the sentencing power of the District Court to...
(Limerick East): No. Section 5 of that Act provides: Where a sentence of imprisonment is passed on any person by the District Court, the Court may order that the sentence shall commence at the expirat...
(Limerick East): I am increasing that now to two years.
(Limerick East): All it does in effect is change the 12 months to two years——
(Limerick East):——but the two years cannot be imposed for a single offence. The two years could be imposed only where there would be two or more offences.
(Limerick East): No. Section 9, with which we have just dealt, makes it obligatory on the district justice to impose consecutive sentences in relation to bail. Section 10 changes section 5 of the Cri...
(Limerick East): For two or more consecutive sentences.
(Limerick East): Yes, but the obligation in section 9 is not carried over into section 10.
(Limerick East): If the offence is non-minor the accused is entitled to trial by jury and the district justice must refuse jurisdiction and send him forward for trial if he thinks the offence is a non...
(Limerick East): The District Court has the power to sentence people to a maximum of 12 months for one minor offence. I use the word “minor” in the sense that the court has jurisdiction over only min...
(Limerick East): That it arises from the same set of facts does not mean that two offences were committed. If somebody is arrested and charged with the larceny of a bottle of milk the courts could dec...
(Limerick East): Somebody commits two crimes related to the one set of facts. That is still two offences. If somebody is before the District Court for two offences, under section 10 of the aggregate ...
(Limerick East): Deputy Molony has outlined the position correctly. The net point is that he thinks it might be unconstitutional. My advice is that it is not, but I will take further advice on it.
(Limerick East): The accused has the option of trial by jury in a higher court. The district justice must be satisfied that the case involves a minor offence. There is no obligation on the justice t...
(Limerick East): That is all very well and I should like to contribute to that debate on a future occasion——
(Limerick East): The net point is that if the offence is indictable — the larceny of a penny is an indictable offence — the accused has the right to opt for trial by jury, and I am sure the accused wi...
(Limerick East): There are delays in Cork but these are for a specific reason. An extra Circuit Court judge has been appointed and I understand that the President of the Circuit Court is allocating h...
(Limerick East): The figure is 90 per cent of all criminals.
(Limerick East): It has not been shown that there is a question mark involved but since the House is pressing me I will look at the matter again. The issue is very straightforward. There is no oblig...
(Limerick East): Of course the question of obligation has something to do with it. Regarding minor offences, larceny, for instance, is not regarded a minor offence but the larceny of a £5 note could ...
(Limerick East): He would have the right to trial by jury and the right to appeal.
(Limerick East): That is not so. For a minor offence there is a maximum sentence of 12 months while for more than one minor offence the maximum sentence is to be two years.
(Limerick East): It is not correct to say I have not answered questions. I said that there were no serious delays except in the Cork area and that we had appointed an extra judge in Cork. I hope that...
(Limerick East): I will, but I do not think I will be in order.
(Limerick East): On a point of order, I have put a lot on the record of the House. It is not fair to say I always give my views outside the House.
(Limerick East): By way of passing reference I would like to say that the vast majority of district justices serving in the District Courts were appointed not by this administration but by previous ad...
(Limerick East): This does not change the role of the DPP. The accused for any indictable offence has the right to trial by jury. There is no change suggested or mooted in section 10.
(Limerick East): There is no change in the role of the DPP. In all indictable offences the accused would have the right to trial by jury. There are certain hybrid offences where a particular section...
(Limerick East): No, again we come back to what I said already. In any indictable offence the accused has the right to trial by jury and the district justice has the discretion of saying, on what is ...
(Limerick East): I move amendment No. 28: In page 8, subsection (1), line 8, to delete “£800” and substitute “£1,000”. Amendment agreed to. Question proposed: “That section 11, as amended, stand part ...
(Limerick East): At present, absconding while on bail is not an offence. Subsection (1), taking the proposed amendment into account, makes it an offence punishable on summary conviction by a fine of ...
(Limerick East): Fails to appear.
(Limerick East): First, if somebody absconds while on bail and fails to appear before a court, a warrant would automatically issue for his arrest. The question being raised by the Association of Garda...
(Limerick East): The point that they are making involves a complicated issue. It probably is not necessary, but I shall look into the matter between now and Report Stage.
(Limerick East): There is one comment which I should like to make on a point made by Deputy Woods. The problem of the bench warrant not being in the hands of the arresting garda would apply to all si...
(Limerick East): I should also like to say that this is a great occasion for the country when all parties of the House are agreed on something. Question put and agreed to. NEW SECTION.
(Limerick East): On a point of order——
(Limerick East): I was hoping that section 12 would be deleted. Deputy Woods' amendment No. 29 has nothing whatever to do with section 12. Would it be more appropriate if we deleted section 12 now and...
(Limerick East): The idea of the amendment is to provide that a person charged with drug pushing under section 15 of the Misuse of Drugs Act, 1977, could not get bail except by order of the High Court...
Adjournment Debate. - Political Asylum for Soviet Citizens.
Limerick East): Aeroflot flights between Russia and Cuba stop daily at Shannon Airport to refuel. During stop over, passengers are allowed to get off the aeroplane and to go to the duty free area in ...
Written Answers. - County Dublin Garda Inquiries.
Limerick East): I am informed by the Garda authorities that a member of the Garda Síochána called to the home of this family on three occasions in May 1984 in order to speak to a member of the family....
Written Answers. - Refugees in Ireland.
Limerick East): I interpret the question as asking what are the United Nations instruments to which this country is a party and which relate to refugees. These are the United Nations Convention relat...
Written Answers. - Crime Prevention.
Limerick East): The precise arrangements for policing particular areas are a matter for the Garda authorities. They have informed me that local officers are aware of the burglary problem in Douglas ...
Written Answers. - County Roscommon Folio Registration.
Limerick East): As a matter of general policy applications for registration submitted to the Land Registry are dealt with as far as possible in the order in which they are received. The average delay...
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