Order of Business. Tuesday, 2 December 2008

Dáil Eireann Debate Vol. 669 No. 2 Page of 330

The Taoiseach:    It is proposed to take No. 7, motion re referral to joint committee on proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Regional Fisheries Boards (Postponement of Elections) Order 2008; No. 2, Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill 2008 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; and No. 20, Nursing Homes Support Scheme Bill 2008 — Second Stage (Resumed). It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 7 shall be decided without debate. Private Members’ business shall be No. 51, motion re agriculture.

An Ceann Comhairle:    There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 7 without debate agreed to?

Deputy Liz McManus:    No. It is important that it be debated. The fact that the motion proposes to postpone elections is an indication that the Minister, Deputy Ryan, seems to be turning [205]into a serial postponer. The elections have been postponed each year since 2005 when they were supposed to have been held. We are being asked now to postpone them until 2009.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    There is something fishy here. It might be cod.

Deputy Liz McManus:    This statutory instrument has the Minister’s official seal on it. The postponement order was presented to the House approximately one year ago. In reintroducing it today, “2007” has probably been Tipp-Exed and replaced by “2008”; and we are expected to rubber stamp it. This is so unacceptable that, when the Fianna Fáil Minister made the same order in 2006, the current Minister described it as “a shocking indictment of the Government’s inability to prioritise the environment”.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    He did not mean it.

Deputy Joe Costello:    He was not in government then.

Deputy Liz McManus:    He then called the postponement a cowardly act. This serious accusation was made following a postponement of two years, but we are again being asked to prevent elections being called for a fourth year. It is not just cowardice; it is incompetence. The promised reform package has not been introduced, nor have the heads of a Bill or other legislation. The Minister is responsible for the fisheries boards and the management of same and has overseen a decentralisation process that has been most incompetent. In fact, that decentralisation did not happen but the process cost a huge amount. The money relating to decentralisation was taken from a fisheries budget that was quite small from the outset.

I request a full debate on this matter so that the House does not merely rubber stamp this incompetence. There is a great deal of discussion from those on the Government side about reducing waste. However, when options are provided and opportunities are presented, we are again asked to defer matters and to play the patsies. That is unacceptable. On behalf of the Labour Party, I request that we engage in a debate on this matter so that we can deal with it once and for all.

The Taoiseach:    This is a matter for the relevant committee in the first instance. If, upon its return, there is a need or a request for a short debate, we could try to accommodate it.

Deputy Liz McManus:    I cannot accept that.

Question put: “That the proposal for dealing with No. 7 be agreed to.”

The Dáil divided: Tà, 71; Níl, 59.

Tá
Ahern, Dermot.	Ahern, Michael.
Ahern, Noel.	Andrews, Barry.
Andrews, Chris.	Ardagh, Seán.
Aylward, Bobby.	Blaney, Niall.
Brady, Áine.	Brady, Cyprian.
Brady, Johnny.	Byrne, Thomas.
Calleary, Dara.	Carey, Pat.
Collins, Niall.	Conlon, Margaret.
Connick, Seán.	Coughlan, Mary.
Cowen, Brian.	Cregan, John.
Cuffe, Ciarán.	Cullen, Martin.
Curran, John.	Dempsey, Noel.
Devins, Jimmy.	Dooley, Timmy.
Finneran, Michael.	Fitzpatrick, Michael.
Fleming, Seán.	Flynn, Beverley.
Gallagher, Pat The Cope.	Gogarty, Paul.
Gormley, John.	Grealish, Noel.
Hanafin, Mary.	Haughey, Seán.
Healy-Rae, Jackie.	Hoctor, Máire.
Kelly, Peter.	Kenneally, Brendan.
Kennedy, Michael.	Kirk, Seamus.
Kitt, Michael P..	Kitt, Tom.
Lenihan, Brian.	Lenihan, Conor.
Lowry, Michael.	McEllistrim, Thomas.
McGrath, Mattie.	McGrath, Michael.
McGuinness, John.	Moloney, John.
Moynihan, Michael.	Mulcahy, Michael.
Ó Cuív, Éamon.	Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
O’Brien, Darragh.	O’Connor, Charlie.
O’Dea, Willie.	O’Flynn, Noel.
O’Rourke, Mary.	O’Sullivan, Christy.
Power, Peter.	Roche, Dick.
Ryan, Eamon.	Sargent, Trevor.
Scanlon, Eamon.	Smith, Brendan.
Treacy, Noel.	Wallace, Mary.
White, Mary Alexandra.

Níl
Bannon, James.	Breen, Pat.
Broughan, Thomas P..	Burke, Ulick.
Burton, Joan.	Byrne, Catherine.
Carey, Joe.	Clune, Deirdre.
Connaughton, Paul.	Coonan, Noel J..
Costello, Joe.	Coveney, Simon.
Crawford, Seymour.	Creed, Michael.
Creighton, Lucinda.	D’Arcy, Michael.
Deenihan, Jimmy.	Doyle, Andrew.
Durkan, Bernard J..	English, Damien.
Enright, Olwyn.	Ferris, Martin.
Flanagan, Charles.	Flanagan, Terence.
Gilmore, Eamon.	Hayes, Brian.
Hayes, Tom.	Howlin, Brendan.
Kehoe, Paul.	Kenny, Enda.
Lynch, Ciarán.	Lynch, Kathleen.
McCormack, Pádraic.	McGrath, Finian.
McManus, Liz.	Mitchell, Olivia.
Morgan, Arthur.	Neville, Dan.
Noonan, Michael.	Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.	O’Donnell, Kieran.
O’Keeffe, Jim.	O’Mahony, John.
O’Sullivan, Jan.	Penrose, Willie.
Perry, John.	Rabbitte, Pat.
Reilly, James.	Shatter, Alan.
Sheehan, P.J..	Sherlock, Seán.
Shortall, Róisín.	Stagg, Emmet.
Stanton, David.	Tuffy, Joanna.
Upton, Mary.	Varadkar, Leo.
Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Pat Carey and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I did not catch the end of what the Taoiseach said in response to the last question in regard to the Finance Bill. What is the projected deficit and projected level of borrowing for next year?

[207]An Ceann Comhairle:    We cannot go into that now.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I have asked the question anyway.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I know.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    The Taoiseach might be good enough to answer the question. There are only nine sitting days left before Christmas. Perhaps the Taoiseach will indicate when the legislation dealing with the medical card issue will come before the House. The Taoiseach will be aware it has been promised on a number of occasions.

Does the Government intend to introduce regulations in the area of stem cell research, a completely unregulated area in this country? The Taoiseach will next week attend a European Council meeting in Brussels at which he will have to outline what he refers to as “elements of a solution” to Ireland’s rejection of the Lisbon treaty. The Taoiseach will be aware that the meeting is no ordinary meeting. I believe the House should discuss this matter——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Kenny cannot discuss that matter now, as he well knows.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——before the Taoiseach goes to Brussels.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Hear, hear.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    There should be a real debate on this issue in the House, which could assist the Taoiseach prior to his departure for Brussels. I expect the Government Whip——

Deputy Thomas Byrne:    Deputy Kenny gave his press release last week.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——might at least inform the other Whips if there is a possibility such debate could take place next Tuesday. I believe it is important we debate this issue of national interest. Ireland is now suffering from an element of anti-Europeanism in certain quarters, which is not good for the future of the economy.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Hear, hear.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I believe we should have a debate on this issue in the House before the Taoiseach goes to Brussels to outline the position in this regard.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Hear, hear.

Deputy Paul Connaughton:    We should have a debate before the Taoiseach goes to Brussels.

The Taoiseach:    As I understand it, the issue of stem cell research was discussed recently in the Seanad during Private Members’ time. No legislation in this area is promised on the Government side.

On the legislation dealing with medical cards, the Bill concerned was brought before Government this morning and approved and can be dealt with subject to agreement by the Whips. On Deputy Kenny’s call for a debate on the Lisbon treaty issue, I understand that the excellent report published last week by the Sub-Committee on Ireland’s Future in the European Union in regard to the issues that have arisen out of the referendum could form the basis of a debate in the House next week.

  [208]5 o’clock

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    Last night, a shocking “Prime Time Investigates” programme showed a huge level of exploitation of workers in this country. One of the most worrying aspects of this was that of road haulage drivers driving without brakes, which apart from being an exploitation of workers, also exposes other road users to considerable risk. Legislation in respect of tightening up the rights of employees and to deal with problems of exploitation in the workplace has been promised for some time. When will the Employment Law Compliance Bill 2008, published in March, nine months ago, and not yet dealt with, be debated in the House? When will the Employment Agencies Regulation Bill 2007, which has been listed for publication, be published?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Morgan on the same issue.

Deputy Arthur Morgan:    I agree with Deputy Gilmore that the revelations made last night on the “Prime Time Investigates” programme were shocking. The problem spans many sectors. Part of the difficulty is that employers apply for and hold work permits. If employees applied for and held work permits, this would allow them much more latitude and would ensure this scandal is less likely to occur.

When will the Employment Law Compliance Bill 2008 come before this House and will it deal with the critical matter of workers holding work permits?

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Taoiseach, on the employment legislation.

The Taoiseach:    The legislation referred to by Deputies Gilmore and Morgan——

An Ceann Comhairle:    I must ask for silence in the House while the Taoiseach is replying.

The Taoiseach:    The consultation process with the social partners is ongoing and it is unlikely the legislation will come before the House until early next year. While I did not see the programme concerned, its contents were reported to me. Any exploitation taking place in this area must be very much condemned and needs to be dealt with. It should perhaps bring some urgency to the consultations currently taking place.

Deputy Arthur Morgan:    Will that consultation extend to include Members of this House as well?

Deputy James Bannon:    Given the serious problems in the pensions sector, when can we expect publication of the family law Bill?

The Taoiseach:    The family law Bill is due to be published next year.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Whether it will resolve the pensions problem is another matter.

Deputy Leo Varadkar:    As the Ceann Comhairle will know, since my election to this House I have taken an interest in the large number of State agencies operating in this country and, in particular, the actions of some of them. It was announced in the budget that approximately 40 agencies would be merged, requiring some 20 items of legislation. I have been in touch with all the Departments about this and of those 20 mergers, Bills are only anticipated in respect of five of them. I do not want to go through all of them, but I would be interested to know if it is the intention of the Taoiseach and the Government to bring before the House, in this session or next year, the necessary legislation to bring about all the amalgamations and abolitions outlined in the Budget Statement? In respect of the 20 proposed mergers, there are only five Bills to amend legislation. Legislation exists to allow for one other merger by way of ministerial [209]order, but there is no legislation to allow for the other proposed 14 mergers. I would interested to know if there is a commitment from Government to publish 14 Bills in respect of those mergers and, if so, when that will be done?

The Taoiseach:    Different issues apply in regard to all these matters. The fact that there are a number of agencies to be rationalised and merged does not equate to the number of Bills that would be required to effect that. The state of readiness of the legislation, where it is applicable in various Departments, would vary from place to place. The important point is that a decision has been taken to proceed along the lines announced in the budget in respect of the agencies mentioned. It is for Ministers now to proceed with that with all due haste in consultation with the management and unions of those agencies.

Deputy Joe Costello:    The Taoiseach may be aware that a major planning application for a €2 billion development has been submitted to deal with a large section of O’Connell Street and the surrounding streets. Two national monuments, namely, the GPO and 14-17 Moore Street, are in the heart of this proposed development. In the context of legislation that has been proposed to consolidate and modernise the existing national monument legislation, when will the national monument Bill come before the House?

The Taoiseach:    Unfortunately, there is no date for it at the moment.

Deputy Joe Costello:    There is a certain urgency about it.

Deputy Joan Burton:    The Minister for Social and Family Affairs said yesterday that people in private pension schemes, if they collapsed would always have the State pension to fall back on. She spread considerable alarm and fear——

An Ceann Comhairle:    That is not relevant to the Order of Business.

Deputy Joan Burton:    Many people in State——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy cannot make a speech on this matter.

Deputy Joan Burton:    Is there a Government proposal to introduce legislation to make this possible because many people who have private pension funds do not have an entitlement in that respect? The Minister also indicated that people in private pensions funds are to be allowed to postpone purchasing an annuity.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Every Deputy in the House wishes to raise matters that are outside the scope of the Order of Business. Is there legislation promised in that area, Taoiseach?

Deputy Joan Burton:    Is there legislation or regulation promised in either of these respects, or was the Minister just having a Marie Antoinette moment of “let them eat cake——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should not mind Marie Antoinette now, that was a different age.

Deputy Joan Burton:    ——as there is always the public pension fund to fall back on.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is legislation promised in this area?

The Taoiseach:    Legislation is promised in this area. Everyone will be aware that a very public consultation has taken place on the Green Paper on Pensions and discussions will continue between the Ministers concerned.

[210]Deputy Joan Burton:    The Minister frightened tens of thousands of people yesterday in her television or radio performance.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I received telephone calls to my constituency office all day about it.

The Taoiseach:    I do not accept that at all.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We cannot discuss television performances now.

Deputy Joan Burton:    People were terrified by what they heard.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte:    We did not hear an interview like it from a Minister since that given by——

Deputy Joan Burton:    Joe Jacob.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte:    ——the former Minister of State, Joe Jacob, who was very much loved on all sides of the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We cannot start reviewing television programmes now, as the Deputy well knows.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte:    Maybe the Chair has a point.

I wrote to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform a few months ago urging him to bring the defamation Bill to Committee. Will the Taoiseach cause this Bill to be progressed, as the work of the press ombudsman may be at risk if it is not enacted? I do not know why it has slipped down the list of priorities since the Deputy Brian Lenihan left that Department.

The Taoiseach:    I understand the Bill is waiting to go to Committee. I cannot give the Deputy an answer to that question. I will inquire and establish what is the position.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan:    I have a brief question for the Ceann Comhairle concerning a raft of questions he ruled out of order today and despite his well-known Kerry wisdom, I believe he got it wrong. They related to bus and DART fares and to who is the regulator in that respect. As the Ceann Comhairle might be aware, the Minister is still the regulator of fares applying to public transport. I cannot understand the reason he did not allow those questions to go forward. They related in particular to the swingeing increases in commuter fares planned for early 2009.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I communicated with the Deputy on that matter and will communicate with him further in greater detail.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    Yesterday, the Licensed Vintners Association announced a proposal to freeze the cost of drink, which will be welcomed in certain quarters as we approach Christmas. Can the Taoiseach confirm that the sale of alcohol Bill will not be published or taken this session, contrary to what was promised on numerous occasions throughout the year, particularly during the debate on the interim measure, the Intoxicating Liquor (Amendment) Bill earlier this year?

The Taoiseach:    It is likely, given that the legislation is about to be given priority for the remainder of session, that it will not be taken this session.

[211]Deputy James Reilly:    I have just come from a meeting of the Joint Committee on Health and Children at which a situation pertaining to 400 children in institutions with disabilities was raised.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy cannot discuss that matter now.

Deputy James Reilly:    I am asking this question under No. 56 on the legislative programme. Given that this situation pertains, and given that HIQA has told us that it is putting in place new standards, but that they have to go to Government and be approved by it and that there are cost implications, will the Taoiseach advise if legislation is required to do this, if a supplementary budget will be required to do it and, if not, will the Government expedite this matter and provide for children with disabilities, who are three to seven times more likely to be abused than their counterparts?

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy cannot make a speech on that matter. He will have to raise it at that committee. Is legislation promised in this area, Taoiseach?

The Taoiseach:    The health information Bill is the legislation that refers to that issue. A consultation process has just been completed and is currently being analysed.

Deputy James Reilly:    So no legislation is required.

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Last Updated: 07/10/2010 16:19:49

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