Order of Business. Thursday, 12 November 2009

Dáil Eireann Debate Vol. 694 No. 3 Page of 193

The Tánaiste:    It is proposed to take No. a1, National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009 — amendments from the Seanad; and No.1, Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2009 [Seanad]— Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on No. a1 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 3.30 p.m. and any amendments from the Seanad not disposed of shall be decided by one question [512]which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in respect of amendments to the Seanad amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance.

An Ceann Comhairle:    There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal to deal with number a1, Seanad amendments to the National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009, agreed?

Deputy Phil Hogan:    Fine Gael will continue to oppose the NAMA legislation. It is not built on concepts that will get credit moving again or that will retain or create new employment opportunities. Before the House divides on this matter, has the Tánaiste received EU approval for the plan proposed through NAMA? If not, when is that approval likely to be given? Will further legislation be required?

An Ceann Comhairle:    There will be ample opportunity to put these questions to the Minister.

Deputy Phil Hogan:    There might not be ample time on this issue.

Deputy Noel J. Coonan:    I would not be too sure.

Deputy Phil Hogan:    To establish our position on the proposal put to the House, we need answers to these questions. Has EU approval been granted for the plan? If not, when will it be given? If changes or conditions are proposed by the EU Commission, will further legislation be required? Will the Bill be sent to the President for signature before EU approval is granted? Has the Tánaiste had any contact with the European Commission, particularly Commissioner Kroes, about the changes in the structure of the banking sector that may arise from NAMA being construed as a state aid?

An Ceann Comhairle:    These are questions with which the Minister for Finance will deal.

Deputy Phil Hogan:    These are very important questions about our attitude. I ask the Tánaiste to answer these questions so that we can establish how to vote on this issue.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We have spent long hours debating the Bill to date.

Deputy Michael Ring:    Can we put the whole lot of them into NAMA? Into NAMA with the lot of them, Ministers and all, along with the Fianna Fáil builders.

Deputy Dermot Ahern:    Deputy Ring is still in Fine Gael. He was going to join Labour.

Deputy Noel J. Coonan:    Hard labour.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    The Labour Party wishes to oppose the Government’s proposal for taking the NAMA legislation today. It is somewhat unusual to have amendments from the Seanad although we get the odd amendment from time to time. In this case, 37 amendments were made to the Bill, most of which were proposed by the Minister. The Government wishes to guillotine discussion on this at 3:30 p.m. It is not just for procedural reasons that the Labour Party is opposing this proposal; it is because of the scale. This is the biggest corporate welfare cheque ever written. We are told every day that there is no money. There is no money for the Christmas bonus——

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    Cancel Christmas.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    ——no money for child benefit, no money for paying wages, no money to help people in trouble with their mortgages and no money to take initiatives to get people back to work, but there is no shortage of money for the banks. Let us bear in mind what has been already done. Some €4 billion has been put into a delinquent bank called Anglo [513]Irish Bank and €7 billion has been provided for Bank of Ireland and AIB. According to the Government’s business plan for NAMA, this exercise will involve overpayment for assets by another €7 billion. That amounts to €18 billion, which would pay the Christmas bonus for 90 years. It is equivalent to five times the adjustment in the public finances about which the Minister will talk in the budget, which will cause everyone a great deal of grief for the next number of years. It is almost as if this is not real money. It is €18 billion of real money without getting into whether more money will be needed for further recapitalisation of the banks or the interest being added to the cost of the State’s borrowing. The Government wants to get all of this done and dusted by 3.30 p.m., yet it will turn around to people in bad circumstances and tell them that there is no money. All of this is because of Fianna Fáil’s mismanagement of the economy.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    This problem happened because of Fianna Fáil’s policies of encouraging property speculation down the years which created the property bubble, because it made the wrong call on the bank guarantee scheme and because it made a second wrong call on NAMA when there was the alternative of nationalising the banks——

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    What a load of rubbish.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    ——for far less than all of this would cost.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The Sinn Féin Deputies do not agree to the Order Paper as presented by the Tánaiste this morning. Very simply, we oppose the NAMA proposition absolutely and the guillotine to be applied. Make no mistake about it, 37 amendments coming back from the Seanad is tantamount to an acknowledgement — an admission on the part of the Government because they are Government amendments — that what was discussed and processed through this House was flawed and that many elements needed further address, as they still do if this is the approach to be taken.

  11 o’clock

The 37 amendments make a significant body of work to be addressed here over a very limited number of hours. Let me remind the House that only 17 of the approximately 200 amendments presented on Report Stage were dealt with substantively during the passage of NAMA through this House and that was over a number of days. Here, we are being asked to address 37 amendments referred back to this House from the Upper House in a matter of a few hours. This is indicative of the Government’s attitude to this, which is to railroad, steam-roll and have its way no matter what. Very simply, if it is voted on to proceed in a matter of hours to address what is involved in this body of amendments, it will be clear that there is no regard whatsoever for real and responsible address of what is at the core of NAMA. We cannot accept it under any circumstances.

The Tánaiste:    We have had a considerable period of time to debate the legislation. In this House we had 86 hours of debate and in the Seanad we had 36 hours of debate. In the context of what we would like to achieve, which is the completion of this legislation as a matter of urgency, which was urged by the Commissioner when he was here recently, I propose the motion.

Deputy Terence Flanagan:    There are 37 amendments.

Question put: “That the proposal for dealing with No. a1 be agreed to.”

[514]The Dáil divided: Tá, 80; Níl, 57.

Tá
Ahern, Bertie.	Ahern, Dermot.
Ahern, Michael.	Ahern, Noel.
Andrews, Barry.	Andrews, Chris.
Ardagh, Seán.	Aylward, Bobby.
Blaney, Niall.	Brady, Áine.
Brady, Cyprian.	Brady, Johnny.
Browne, John.	Byrne, Thomas.
Calleary, Dara.	Carey, Pat.
Collins, Niall.	Conlon, Margaret.
Connick, Seán.	Coughlan, Mary.
Cregan, John.	Cuffe, Ciarán.
Curran, John.	Dempsey, Noel.
Devins, Jimmy.	Dooley, Timmy.
Fahey, Frank.	Finneran, Michael.
Fitzpatrick, Michael.	Fleming, Seán.
Flynn, Beverley.	Gogarty, Paul.
Gormley, John.	Hanafin, Mary.
Harney, Mary.	Haughey, Seán.
Healy-Rae, Jackie.	Hoctor, Máire.
Kelleher, Billy.	Kelly, Peter.
Kenneally, Brendan.	Kennedy, Michael.
Killeen, Tony.	Kitt, Michael P.
Kitt, Tom.	Lenihan, Brian.
Lenihan, Conor.	Lowry, Michael.
McEllistrim, Thomas.	McGrath, Mattie.
McGrath, Michael.	McGuinness, John.
Mansergh, Martin.	Martin, Micheál.
Moloney, John.	Mulcahy, Michael.
Nolan, M. J.	Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.	O’Brien, Darragh.
O’Connor, Charlie.	O’Dea, Willie.
O’Donoghue, John.	O’Flynn, Noel.
O’Hanlon, Rory.	O’Keeffe, Batt.
O’Keeffe, Edward.	O’Sullivan, Christy.
O’Sullivan, Maureen.	Power, Peter.
Power, Seán.	Roche, Dick.
Ryan, Eamon.	Sargent, Trevor.
Scanlon, Eamon.	Smith, Brendan.
Treacy, Noel.	Wallace, Mary.
White, Mary Alexandra.	Woods, Michael.

Níl
Allen, Bernard.	Bannon, James.
Breen, Pat.	Broughan, Thomas P.
Burke, Ulick.	Burton, Joan.
Byrne, Catherine.	Carey, Joe.
Clune, Deirdre.	Connaughton, Paul.
Coonan, Noel J.	Costello, Joe.
Crawford, Seymour.	Creed, Michael.
D’Arcy, Michael.	Deenihan, Jimmy.
Doyle, Andrew.	Durkan, Bernard J.
English, Damien.	Feighan, Frank.
Ferris, Martin.	Flanagan, Terence.
Gilmore, Eamon.	Hayes, Brian.
Hayes, Tom.	Higgins, Michael D.
Hogan, Phil.	Howlin, Brendan.
Kehoe, Paul.	Lynch, Ciarán.
McCormack, Pádraic.	McEntee, Shane.
McGinley, Dinny.	McManus, Liz.
Morgan, Arthur.	Naughten, Denis.
Neville, Dan.	Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.	O’Donnell, Kieran.
O’Dowd, Fergus.	O’Keeffe, Jim.
O’Mahony, John.	O’Sullivan, Jan.
Penrose, Willie.	Perry, John.
Reilly, James.	Ring, Michael.
Sheahan, Tom.	Sheehan, P. J.
Sherlock, Seán.	Shortall, Róisín.
Stagg, Emmet.	Stanton, David.
Timmins, Billy.	Upton, Mary.
Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Pat Carey and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Phil Hogan:    I ask the Tánaiste whether the National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009 will be referred to the President prior to the EU’s approval being sought.

Deputy Billy Kelleher:    That is out of order.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Hogan, we are not debating the issue.

Deputy Billy Kelleher:    He is compromising the powers of the President.

Deputy Phil Hogan:    I welcome the release of Fr. Michael Sinnott and congratulate the Minister for Foreign Affairs and his officials on a satisfactory conclusion to this unfortunate event. I am sure Fr. Sinnott’s family and friends are more than pleased with the co-operation they received and the eventual outcome.

Finally, I ask the Tánaiste when the environmental liability directive will be transposed into Irish law.

The Tánaiste:    I share Deputy Hogan’s delight in the release of Fr. Michael Sinnott. I thank those who have helped to ensure his release, including in particular my colleague, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and our ambassadors. Fr. Sinnott’s family is certainly relieved that he is free and it was wonderful to see him in such good fettle despite his captivity. Our officials are liaising with his family to ensure a safe reunion.

An environmental liability Bill will be introduced this session.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I join Deputy Hogan and the Tánaiste in welcoming the release of Fr. Michael Sinnott, which is a great relief to his family and colleagues in the Columban Fathers. I also join the tributes being paid to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and, through him, to Ambassador O’Brien and his colleagues, for the outstanding work they did in securing the release of Fr. Sinnott.

On legislation, the Defamation Act was passed in the House on 8 July last. Introduced in July 2006, the legislation had a long gestation in the Houses. Having taken three years to be passed, the Act has not yet come into effect, apparently because the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has not yet made the commencement order. What is delaying the making of the commencement order? When will it be made and laid before the House?

The Tánaiste:    On the Defamation Act, which has been passed, the Minister has indicated he will commence it very shortly.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    We have a crisis in the largest hospital in the north east, Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda. Four deaths have been associated with an outbreak of [516]C. difficile, three wards have been closed and absolute chaos has resulted from the spin-off situation. Will the Tánaiste indicate to the House if the Minister for Health and Children will accommodate——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy’s question would be more appropriately addressed to the Minister.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    In relation to the arrangement of the ordering of business of the House, will the Tánaiste indicate whether the Minister for Health and Children will accommodate an opportunity to address this very serious situation and outline what additional measures she is introducing to ensure patients are not playing a game of Russian roulette with MRSA or C. difficile in taking up opportunities in hospital sites?

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Adjournment debate or parliamentary questions would be much more appropriate forums for raising the issue.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    As the Ceann Comhairle is well aware, this is an extremely important matter. I have made a reasonable request to ascertain whether address of the issue can be accommodated on the floor of the House.

Deputy Seymour Crawford:    It is urgent.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The issue should be raised on the Adjournment or in a question to the Minister for Health and Children.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    As the Tánaiste may be aware, many students in higher education have dropped out of college because they have not obtained a maintenance grant from a local authority or vocational educational committee. Eighteen months ago, the Government——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the Deputy referring to legislation?

Deputy Brian Hayes:    Yes, I refer to legislation which has completed Second Stage. We have been waiting for 18 months for it to come before a committee of the House. On what date will the Committee Stage debate take place on the Student Support Bill, the purpose of which is to bring within one agency the four higher education grant schemes?

The Tánaiste:    I will revert to the Deputy in due course on the date for the Committee Stage debate.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    In the 18 months we have been waiting many young people have had to leave college.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Fine Gael Party Whip can address the issue to the Government Chief Whip.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    I want the Government to indicate on what date the Bill will be taken on Committee Stage. This is a matter for the House which completed Second Stage of the legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy has been given a reply. The Tánaiste indicated she would revert to him.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    Her reply is inadequate.

[517]Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    In view of the fact that some Aer Lingus aeroplanes are leaving this country crewed by non-Aer Lingus staff, will the Tánaiste ensure that the company law consolidation and reform Bill requires equality and fairness in companies such as Aer Lingus? In light of the necessity to retain our national carrier and its employees, will the Government require that directors of the board of Aer Lingus appointed by the Minister insist that the company employ Aer Lingus crews to fly its aeroplanes?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the Deputy referring to legislation?

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    It is disgraceful and shameful that Aer Lingus crews are sitting in airports while contract companies are being used to fly Aer Lingus aeroplanes. This practice is unacceptable and breaches legislation on——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will have to table a question to the appropriate Minister.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    This is what happens when one privatises.

Deputy Shane McEntee:    On speed cameras, the relevant Bill has——

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    Please allow the Deputy to continue without interruption.

Deputy Shane McEntee:    I note the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has departed. Changes are to be made in the area of speed cameras. Money has been allocated and speed cameras ordered but the equipment is not in place.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the Deputy referring to primary legislation?

Deputy Shane McEntee:    One hundred people will lose their lives this year because the Ministers for Transport and Justice, Equality and Law Reform are not doing their job.

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    Was it intended that the €200 levy on second homes introduced in the budget would be tax deductible?

On communications legislation, is it fair and equitable that a small operator of a holiday home village must pay television licence fees——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should ask a parliamentary question or raise the matter on the Adjournment. There are many ways to raise this issue which is not related to primary legislation.

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    The issue arises under the communications Bill. A small operator who did not build up his business through the business expansion scheme or Government tax incentives must pay——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should submit a parliamentary question to the relevant Minister.

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    I am coming to the point. The operator in question, who must purchase a television licence for each of his holiday homes, is competing with 100 bedroomed hotels which have one television licence. Is that fair and equitable?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Parliamentary questions are the obvious vehicle for eliciting the information the Deputy seeks.

[518]Deputy Tom Sheahan:    Will the Tánaiste reply to my question on whether the second home levy was intended to be tax deductible?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I advise the Deputy to submit a parliamentary question on the issue.

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Law Reform indicated in the House that the levy would be tax deductible.

An Ceann Comhairle:    If the Deputy gives notice of the matter, my office will consider having it discussed on the Adjournment.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    The Tánaiste is unable to answer Deputy Sheahan’s question.

Deputy Billy Kelleher:    It is not in order.

Deputy Seymour Crawford:    Social welfare has been widely discussed in the House in recent weeks. Will the Government rectify the record of the House which states that in the emergency legislation increases will be introduced in the Social Welfare Bill 2010? Is this still the case and, if not, when will the error be rectified?

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy must await the publication of the Bill.

Deputy Seymour Crawford:    Some weeks ago, Deputies were promised a debate on the crisis in agriculture. When will the debate take place?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the Deputy pursuing some aspect of primary legislation that is under consideration?

Deputy Seymour Crawford:    It was agreed to have statements on agriculture but they were postponed. When will they be taken? When will the animal health and welfare Bill be taken? The welfare of animals and humans in the farming sector is extremely important at present.

The Tánaiste:    The debate will take place on Tuesday week, as agreed by the party spokespersons. There is not yet a date for publication of the animal and welfare legislation.

Deputy Terence Flanagan:    I refer to the environment (miscellaneous provisions) Bill, which will, among other things, increase penalties under the Air Pollution Act 1997, and the sale of alcohol Bill, long overdue legislation to update and consolidate the liquor licensing laws. When will these Bills come before the House?

The Tánaiste:    It is intended that the environment Bill will come before the House during this session and the sale of alcohol Bill will come before it early next year.

Deputy Willie Penrose:    On promised legislation, and in particular the Health Information Bill, is the Tánaiste or any member of the Government aware of how the bureaucratic monster, namely, the HSE is surreptitiously pursuing a campaign to downgrade the status of the Midland Regional Hospital, Mullingar? At 5 p.m. today 41 acute beds will be taken out of the most efficient hospitals in the country. No discussions took place with consultants, nurses or patients. Beds for acute patients who present to the hospital 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 52 weeks of the year will be removed. Is there any control over this monster? Why did the HSE steal money which was due to the hospital? Some €1.5 million was to be provided to it but only €0.5 million was received. The monster must be emasculated because it is destroying the health service and the people of Longford-Westmeath will not stand for it. Hundreds of patients [519]are now very worried. This is a matter of life and death. Acute beds are being replaced with day beds. I cannot understand it.

An Ceann Comhairle:    It may well be but the Deputy will have to find an alternative way of addressing it.

Deputy Willie Penrose:    We might as well not come in here. It is not the Ceann Comhairle’s fault, but we would be better off closing this place because the media have a field day telling people we are only open 91 days. The 91 days we are here are a waste of time.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Willie Penrose:    Something has to be done. We have lost consultants.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is being disorderly.

Deputy Willie Penrose:    I know. I am 13 years here and I am fed up being orderly. I do not want to be disorderly.

An Ceann Comhairle:    You are being very disorderly.

Deputy Willie Penrose:    I do not want to be disorderly at all, but the HSE is not helping anyone.

An Ceann Comhairle:    It is not——

Deputy Willie Penrose:    Deputy Bannon knows what the people——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Penrose, resume your seat.

Deputy Willie Penrose:    There are phantom notes.

(Interruptions).

Deputy James Bannon:    On the same issue——

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    I will come back to you.

Deputy James Bannon:    On the same issue——

An Ceann Comhairle:    I ask Deputy Bannon to resume his seat and I will come back to him

Deputy James Bannon:    Am I not allowed to speak on the same issue?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I have to take speakers in sequence.

Deputy James Bannon:    Am I not allowed to speak on the same issue? It is very important.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I will come back to you.

Deputy James Bannon:    On the same issue——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Resume your seat.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    On two matters——

[520]An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Bannon, resume your seat.

Deputy James Bannon:    It is the same issue.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I will come back to you.

Deputy James Bannon:    Am I not allowed to speak on the same issue?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I ask you to resume your seat.

Deputy James Bannon:    God help us.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    On the Student Support Bill, all Stages should be completed as a matter of urgency, particularly as some 12 vocational education committees have told students they are short staffed and cannot issue grants. It is important that the Tánaiste give an indication as to when the House will pass all Stages of the Bill.

On the C list of proposed legislation, three Bills, namely Nos. 56, 57 and 58, deal with changes in regard to regulation. In no case is there any indication when they will be brought before the House. For example——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Does the Deputy have a specific query on legislation?

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    Yes, I have. The new proposed regulatory regime for the Central Bank will create a Central Bank of Ireland commission. The list states it is not possible to indicate at this stage when the Bill will be published. In view of the widespread public outrage at the complete failure of regulation or supervision by the Department of Finance, the Central Bank and the Financial Regulator, as we discuss the final Stages of the NAMA Bill today it is irresponsible not to be in a position to give a date for the publication of the legislation——

An Ceann Comhairle:    All those points can be made during the debate on the Bill.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    ——regarding changes in regulation.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will have ample opportunity to make his points.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    It is the Tánaiste’s business to indicate when she will bring forward the legislation. Can she give a date for it? The commission will ask her for it.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We will ask the Tánaiste to advise the House.

The Tánaiste:    We are not in a position to say when this legislation will be brought forward.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    I can read that.

The Tánaiste:    As the Deputy is aware, we have had to introduce emergency legislation——-

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    I am well aware of that, as is the whole country.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    For the banks and the builders.

The Tánaiste:    ——-which has taken a long time, and consequently only a certain amount of resources are available to the Government and parliamentary draftsmen to bring forward legislation. I will indicate the Deputy’s vociferousness to the Minister in providing that legislation as a matter of urgency.

On the Student Support Bill——

[521]Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    The Tánaiste does not need to bother about my vociferousness. I will look after it myself.

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste:    The Minister indicated to the Labour Party spokesperson last week the issues arising from Committee Stage and I will have the details of the matter circulated to the two Deputies who raised the issue.

A Deputy:  Can the Tánaiste say that again?

The Tánaiste:    The Minister wrote to Deputy Quinn in response to a question he raised and I will circulate the response to the other Deputies who raised the matter.

Deputy Joe Carey:    On the finance Bill and the comments of the Tánaiste in Limerick last week on the abolition of the €10 travel tax, today offers her an opportunity to clarify her position. Can she make a statement on the mid-west task force——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will have to find an alternative way of eliciting the information.

Deputy Joe Carey:    ——interim report? I tried to raise this issue on the Adjournment but the Ceann Comhairle did not give me the opportunity to do so.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy has the option of asking a parliamentary question.

Deputy Joe Carey:    The Tánaiste is taking the Order of Business. Why can she not make a statement?

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Order of Business will last all day if we allow this to continue.

Deputy Joe Carey:    It is about a region in this country.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy can submit a parliamentary question.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan:    I share Deputy Carey’s concern about the two issues he tried to raise. On secondary legislation, the Limerick north side and south side regeneration agencies were established by legislation passed by this House. Their masterplans have been ready for more than a year but have not yet been brought to the Cabinet. When does the Tánaiste expect them to come before the Cabinet for consideration?

Deputy Joan Burton:    The Deputy will be waiting a long day for that.

The Tánaiste:    That is a matter for another Minister.

Deputy Pat Breen:    I raise the question of the Tánaiste’s visit to Thomond Park in Limerick last week.

The Tánaiste:    Where were you? If the Deputies are all worried about Shannon development, they should all have been there.

Deputy Pat Breen:    She was out too early for us. We were doing other business.

The Tánaiste:    Regional development.

Deputy Pat Breen:    The Tánaiste was asked by Clare FM and other local media——

[522]Deputy James Reilly:    Thomond Park is not big enough for the two of them.

Deputy Pat Breen:    ——about the travel tax and she said the Government was in discussions with Ryanair which resulted——

The Tánaiste:    I said neither.

Deputy Pat Breen:    ——in Ryanair stating no discussions were taking place. The Department of Finance stated it was surprised at the Tánaiste’s comments. Now that the Minister for Transport is sitting close to the Tánaiste perhaps——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will have to find another way to address this matter.

Deputy Pat Breen:    ——we can know if talks are taking place with Ryanair regarding the travel tax, as the Tánaiste stated last Friday. It is very simple——

An Ceann Comhairle:    That is not appropriate for the Order of Business.

Deputy Pat Breen:    ——and straightforward. The Minister for Transport is beside to her to answer the question.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should ask a parliamentary question.

Deputy Pat Breen:    I put down a parliamentary question and the Minister for Transport said he had no talks, but the Tánaiste said they were in discussions and the Department of Finance is denying it. I want to know——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should communicate directly with the Minister.

Deputy Pat Breen:    I want clarification of the situation.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should raise it on the Adjournment.

Deputy Pat Breen:    Can the Tánaiste clarify the situation regarding talks with Ryanair? It is having a devastating affect on the region and is part of the reason a deal is not being done with the Shannon Airport Authority.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I have been more than tolerant.

Deputy Pat Breen:    Both of the Ministers are there.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    We are not discussing press releases from Michael O’Leary.

Deputy Pat Breen:    The Tánaiste said it. It is on audio.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Breen.

Deputy Pat Breen:    The Tánaiste said discussions took place between the Government and Ryanair on the travel tax.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Breen, resume your seat.

Deputy Pat Breen:    I want clarification on that in the House this morning.

[523]An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Reilly.

Deputy Pat Breen:    The silence is deafening.

Deputy Michael Ring:    The Minister for press releases.

Deputy James Reilly:    The Minister for depression is more likely. The Student Support Bill has been discussed here and the Tánaiste’s response is very poor. The Bill has been waiting for 18 months to enter Committee Stage. Some students are unable to go to college and their grants have been delayed. The Tánaiste needs to give a far better response than she has given.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Tánaiste has already dealt with that question. The matter was raised earlier.

Deputy James Reilly:    What has she told us? When will Committee Stage of the Bill be dealt with?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I am reverting to Deputy Hayes.

Deputy James Reilly:    When will Committee Stage be debated? That is what students all over this country want to know.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, please.

Deputy James Reilly:    Some €60 million was paid out this year in medical legal fees and €560 million is coming down the track, one third of which will cover legal costs.

When will the legal costs Bill be published to address this matter?

The last issue I want to raise has been mentioned by Deputy O’Dowd. That is Aer Lingus and the outsourcing of its work——

Deputy Terence Flanagan:    Jobs.

Deputy James Reilly:    ——to England. There is legislation involved. Will provisions be made in the finance Bill to stop this loophole where companies in this country flying an Irish flag will be able to outsource all their labour, pilots and cabin crew to a foreign clime? These people pay taxes in that foreign clime and contribute nothing to our Exchequer.

Deputy Terence Flanagan:    Hear, hear.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will have to await publication of the Finance Bill.

Deputy James Reilly:    As a country, we have a 25% stake in the airline. What is that for except the public interest? If the public interest is not in maintaining Irish jobs, I do not know what it is.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    Hear, hear.

The Tánaiste:    The legal costs Bill is due next year.

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    The Tánaiste had no Weetabix this morning.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    She is very short this morning.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    She had Rice Krispies.

[524]Deputy Denis Naughten:    I wish to ask the Tánaiste about two pieces of legislation. All Members in the House have had personal experience of the trauma people go through in dealing with the coroner service. The Coroners Bill has been in limbo in the Seanad for the past two years. Will the Seanad give us any indication of when it will move through the Seanad and come before the Dáil?

The second piece of legislation——

An Ceann Comhairle:    That Bill is a matter for the Seanad and it is not really a matter for the Dáil at this point.

Deputy Denis Naughten:    We are awaiting Committee Stage. There has been a delay in tabling amendments for two years. Deputy Stagg raised a similar issue last week which the Taoiseach responded to on Tuesday. The precedent is there.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The information may not be available. The Bill is before the Seanad and it is quite unfair to expect the Tánaiste to have the information readily available this morning.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    The information was supplied to the Taoiseach at a later time.

Deputy Denis Naughten:    I do not expect the Tánaiste to have it.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    It is not really a matter for the Seanad, we are waiting for the Minister.

Deputy Denis Naughten:    She can do me the courtesy of coming back to me on the issue. No. 76 is the social welfare lone parent and low income families reform Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle:    On the previous issue, the legislation is in the Seanad and it is a matter for the other House. We will have to await its deliberation.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    It is not a matter for the other House, it is a matter for the Minister.

Deputy Denis Naughten:    On Tuesday the Taoiseach responded to a question put by Deputy Stagg the previous week on legislation before the Seanad. The question asked when Committee Stage amendments would be tabled and the Taoiseach responded in the House on the specific pieces of legislation. I am talking about a piece of legislation——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The information may not be available today.

Deputy Denis Naughten:    ——that has been in the Seanad for the past two years.

An Ceann Comhairle:    It may not be available today.

Deputy Denis Naughten:    The Minister for Transport has trotted out figures without any basis and there is a piece of legislation that could streamline the whole process and address some of the trauma people experience in dealing with coroners around this country. All I am asking is for the Tánaiste to come back to me on that and let me know what is happening.

The second issue is No. 76, the social welfare lone parent and families reform Bill. Yesterday, the Minister for Social and Family Affairs admitted to the House that she will not reach her target by the end of the year of €600 million in savings against fraud. The savings that could be made could pay for the Christmas bonus. Instead of the Minister for Social and Family Affairs coming here and planning how she will take money from vulnerable families through reducing child benefit and the Christmas bonus——

[525]An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy must find an alternative way of raising the matter.

Deputy Denis Naughten:    ——and slashing social welfare rates from 1 January, it would be more in her line to get her own act together in her Department——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy.

Deputy Denis Naughten:    ——and deliver on her own commitments to tackling fraud. Only half of the target for fighting fraud will be achieved by the end of the year. It is an appalling disgrace and shows the gross incompetence of the Government and the Minister for Social and Family Affairs.

Deputy Joe Carey:    Hear, hear.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Bernard Durkan.

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    The Ceann Comhairle is protecting the Tánaiste like a gladiator.

The Tánaiste:    To be helpful to the Deputy, I will ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to revert to him on the legislation before the Seanad.

Deputy Denis Naughten:    What about No. 76?

The Tánaiste:    The Deputy answered his own question. It is not possible to indicate when that will come before the House.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    The Ceann Comhairle will be delighted with me this morning.

The Tánaiste:    Good.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    I will be completely in order.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh:    Go on.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    I will not ask any question about the Ministers who very carefully answer parliamentary questions — there is a minority who do so — because it would reflect on those who do not.

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    That is right.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    That would not be fair. I will not raise the question of the Ministers who do not reply at all——

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    At all.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    ——but will respond to anything except the question.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the Deputy going to talk about promised legislation?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    I am not going to ask that. Ministers should note that I will come back to the subject. Apropos the issue raised by Deputy Michael D. Higgins, there is a peculiar occurrence with promised legislation. Nos. 56 to 58, inclusive, are urgent legislation — it states as much in the legislative programme — and No. 57 is in accordance with the Government’s better regulation agenda. That is news to me and I did not know it had a better regulation agenda but we are always willing to hear new things.

[526]No. 58 is the reform of financial regulatory services Bill, and that was raised by Deputy Michael D. Higgins. The programme states it is “to replace existing structures (the Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland) with a new single unified Central Bank of Ireland Commission”.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Could we get to a question?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    I am quoting the legislation. I have raised this on several occasions and everybody on this side of the House has also raised it on several occasions. Will the Tánaiste give some indication to the House this morning of what is meant, in Government terms, by “urgency” and “urgent legislation”? Is it intended to in any way expedite the process through the process in line with public anxiety and requirements in the country currently?

The Tánaiste:    I have answered Deputy Higgins’s question. It is the same answer as I gave 25 minutes ago and I cannot change it.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    What is the answer?

The Tánaiste:    There is no date.

Deputy Joe Carey:    That says it all.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Does the Ceann Comhairle agree with me that the response says it all?

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Tánaiste has given the answer.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Not only is the Government misleading the public and the House——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will need to find an alternative way of bringing that up.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    The Tánaiste has very glibly tried to inform the House that the Government will do nothing.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Bannon.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    It is a disgrace.

Deputy James Bannon:    Does the Tánaiste realise that she has treated the people of this country with contempt this morning with her replies?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Does Deputy Bannon have a question on legislation?

Deputy James Bannon:    Of course. I am coming to it. The Tánaiste stated that it is not possible at this stage to state when the eligibility for health and personal social services Bill will be brought before the House. This concerns all the citizens of the midlands who have been treated by phantom consultants for the past six months——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Has the Deputy a specific inquiry rather than commentary?

Deputy James Bannon:    ——in Longford-Westmeath General Hospital.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Bannon.

[527]Deputy James Bannon:    Nurses and staff are being withdrawn from the hospital without any consultation whatever with the management of the hospital. It is a disgrace.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Will Deputy Bannon resume his seat?

Deputy James Bannon:    On another issue?

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    The Deputy should take his tablets.

Deputy James Bannon:    On another issue——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is it relevant to legislation?

Deputy James Bannon:    Very much so. I had friends from the United States visiting Ireland last week. They had much interest in our heritage and culture and visited many of our monuments throughout the length and breadth of Ireland. They said it was a sham and a shame the way our national monuments have been allowed to deteriorate in this country.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is this relevant to legislation?

Deputy James Bannon:    When the Government announced its budget it cut 40% from the monument budget.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is not speaking to legislation. Will he resume his seat?

Deputy James Bannon:    May I ask about legislation?

An Ceann Comhairle:    It is commentary rather than a question on legislation.

Deputy James Bannon:    I am allowed to pose a question on legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Bannon should resume his seat.

Deputy James Bannon:    I ask the Tánaiste when the monuments Bill will come before the House. That is legislation.

The Tánaiste:    That is next year.

Deputy Joe Costello:    This is a very straightforward question relating to children’s welfare. The Tánaiste may have seen recent reports where the Maclaren company, which produces children’s goods, has had to recall a million child buggies in the United States because of the danger and damage to children’s fingers. Some children had the tips of their fingers cut off by the buggies in the United States. When the query was put to the Maclaren company about similar products in Ireland, it first denied that there were any such products in Ireland. The statement was then corrected to indicate that there were such products in Ireland but because of the nature of the Irish safety legislation, it did not warrant a recall of the buggies.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the Deputy speaking to promised legislation?

Deputy Joe Costello:    If the matter is serious enough for 1 million child buggies to be recalled in the United States, surely it is serious enough for the same items to be recalled in this country. What will the Tánaiste do about this situation? What will she do to strengthen the legislation so that the child protection principle that has pertained in the US also pertains here?

[528]The Tánaiste:    I have asked the National Consumer Agency to investigate this matter on my behalf.

Deputy Joe Costello:    If the piece of equipment that has been recalled in the United State is on sale in Ireland, surely there is a prima facie case for its recall.

The Tánaiste:    I will revert to the Deputy when I have received the advice of the National Consumer Agency, which is investigating the matter on my behalf.

Deputy Joe Costello:    Is there a timescale for that?

The Tánaiste:    It will happen as quickly as possible.

Deputy John Perry:    I am sure the loss of 250 jobs at the Stiefel plant in Sligo yesterday is close to the Tánaiste’s heart. Can she tell the House whether due diligence took place before the company was sold three months ago? Stiefel has been the backbone of job creation in County Sligo since its operations commenced in 1975. It is apparent from information that has been supplied to me that it was bought by a major international company with the intention of downsizing it and eventually closing it. I am raising this matter in the context of the proposed industrial development foundation Bill. The people of Sligo would like to know what plans have been put in place by the Tánaiste in light of the massive impact of yesterday’s news.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy can raise this matter on the Adjournment or table a parliamentary question.

Deputy John Perry:    Given that the closure will take place over a four-year period——

An Ceann Comhairle:    This is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Deputy Arthur Morgan:    We are entitled to know.

Deputy John Perry:    I am entitled to know about the industrial development foundation Bill, which is being prepared by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. As the closure will take place over a four-year period, the Tánaiste has an opportunity to intervene in some way, for example by incentivising——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will have to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

Deputy John Perry:    I have sought to raise this important issue on the Adjournment. I hope the Ceann Comhairle chooses it.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy can also ask a parliamentary question.

Deputy John Perry:    Can the Tánaiste deal with this matter?

An Ceann Comhairle:    If it is to be raised on the Adjournment, it can be considered in that context.

Deputy John Perry:    Will that happen today?

An Ceann Comhairle:    It will be considered.

Deputy John Perry:    Will the Tánaiste come to the House for such a debate? There is no point——

[529]An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy cannot continue to intervene like this.

Deputy John Perry:    The Tánaiste wants to answer.

An Ceann Comhairle:    It will be considered for inclusion in the Adjournment debate.

Deputy John Perry:    The Tánaiste needs to speak about the closure of a company that is based next door to her constituency.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will be informed if this matter is selected for the Adjournment debate.

Deputy John Perry:    I am asking whether the Tánaiste will respond to this issue on the Adjournment.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The queries the Deputy is raising now can be dealt with at that point.

Deputy John Perry:    I am looking for clarification on this matter.

Deputy Denis Naughten:    The people of the north west want to know what is going on.

Deputy John Perry:    Will the Tánaiste, who is the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, come into the House this evening to deal with this issue on the Adjournment?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call——

Deputy John Perry:    She is in charge of this issue.

Deputy Denis Naughten:    She is the boss.

The Tánaiste:    I have made a public pronouncement on what i intend to do on this issue. I will follow through on that.

Deputy John Perry:    Will the Tánaiste make a statement in this House today?

The Tánaiste:    I made a statement yesterday.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    She has already made a statement.

The Tánaiste:    I indicated yesterday that I will work with the relevant authorities to deal with this issue.

Deputy John Perry:    We have heard all that before.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The item is down for consideration on the Adjournment.

Deputy John Perry:    Why has the Tánaiste not been working before now to prevent the closure of the company?

An Ceann Comhairle:    If it is selected, the Deputy will be able to ask all these questions.

Deputy John Perry:    What happened last July?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Deputy John Perry:    The company was sold last July.

[530]An Ceann Comhairle:    I have been more than tolerant with the Deputy.

Deputy John Perry:    Will the Tánaiste come to the House for the Adjournment debate later today?

An Ceann Comhairle:    If the item is selected for the Adjournment, it will be dealt with by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

Deputy John Perry:    I am trying to hold the Tánaiste to account.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Deputy John Perry:    Will she give the Dáil an answer on this issue today?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Burton.

Deputy Joan Burton:    The Dáil has not debated the McCarthy report since it was published some months ago. The report recommended that a number of third level educational institutions should be amalgamated. For example, it proposed that a number of institutes of technology in the Dublin area should be merged with Dublin Institute of Technology. The Grangegorman Development Agency was established by the Government with the aim of developing a new headquarters for Dublin Institute of Technology.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should ask about legislation.

Deputy Joan Burton:    We are coming up to the budget.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Yes.

Deputy Joan Burton:    A pre-budget announcement will be made today.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We cannot have Question Time on the Order of Business.

Deputy Joan Burton:    We have no clarity.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should ask about promised legislation.

Deputy Joan Burton:    Can the Tánaiste tell the House whether the Government has made a decision on the future of certain third level institutions, such as Dublin Institute of Technology and certain authorities, such as the Grangegorman Development Agency?

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will have to find an alternative way of getting this information.

Deputy Joan Burton:    The McCarthy report recommended that some of these bodies should be amalgamated or abolished. What is the status of the report, which proposed the Grangegorman Development Agency for abolition? Will the Government provide time for a debate on the McCarthy report, which is a fundamental aspect of its pre-budget strategy?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I am not aware that the McCarthy report can be considered as promised legislation.

Deputy Joan Burton:    The McCarthy report is a major Government report. It has never been debated in this House even though it will have huge consequences for education and health services.

[531]An Ceann Comhairle:    It can be dealt with in the context of the pre-budget debate that has been promised for next week.

Deputy Joan Burton:    Can the Tánaiste tell us whether the Government has made a decision on the future of the Grangegorman Development Agency, Dublin Institute of Technology and related institutions?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I ask the Deputy to resume her seat.

Deputy Ulick Burke:    A waste disposal company has applied to the Environmental Protection Agency to provide facilities for the dumping of asbestos at an existing landfill in the community of Kilconnell, which is near Ballinasloe in east Galway.

An Ceann Comhairle:    This is not promised legislation.

Deputy Ulick Burke:    I would like to ask the Tánaiste about the matter in the context of the proposed environment (miscellaneous provisions) Bill. Will the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government intervene in the granting of a licence by the EPA? The disposal of asbestos in this country is one of the most serious issues with which we have to deal.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is going to have to find an alternative way of raising this matter.

Deputy Ulick Burke:    In the past, all of it has been sent out of the country at an enormous cost.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I suggest that he should raise it on the Adjournment or table a parliamentary question.

Deputy Ulick Burke:    A waste company has applied to be allowed to dispose of asbestos in east Galway.

An Ceann Comhairle:    There are many ways of raising it.

Deputy Ulick Burke:    Questions were asked when the site in question was approved as a landfill site in the first instance.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We have to move on.

Deputy Ulick Burke:    The company has no concern for the health and safety of the community in Kilconnell.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I have to begin the debate on the National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009.

Deputy Ulick Burke:    I ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to intervene in this case immediately to ensure that the site is not used for the disposal of asbestos.

An Ceann Comhairle:    That concludes the Order of Business.

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