Foreshore and Dumping at Sea (Amendment) Bill 2009 [Seanad]: Committee and Remaining Stages.

Thursday, 3 December 2009

Dáil Eireann Debate
Vol. 697 No. 1

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Section 1 agreed to.

Question proposed: “That section 2 stand part of the Bill.”

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Section 2 is the definition section. I have a very simple inquiry. There is a difference between the common law definition of “foreshore” in the Foreshore Act 1933 and the later definition in the Planning and Development Act 2000, for example. Is the definition that the Minister of State is using an extension of the 1933 definition? It is important to have clarification because there are three or four possible definitions. Does the Minister of State’s definition extend the 1933 definition to include the distance seawards?

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Tony Killeen): Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  That is the case. It is likely to be extended at some point, but it includes the amount——

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  There is nothing to preclude that.

Deputy Michael Creed: Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  No, there is nothing to preclude that.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  I thank the Minister of State.

Section 2 agreed to.

Sections 3 and 4 agreed to.

[95]

Deputy Michael Creed: Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  I move amendment No. 1:

In his speech, the Minister of State stated that modernisation of the legal framework is not the purpose of this Bill. Lest we have an interminable delay, it is important to use the opportunity afforded by this Bill to put down a marker which ensures that within six months we will have a report on the necessary framework.

  6 o’clock

Deputy Seán Barrett: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  I support this amendment and ask the Minister to accept it. It will not do any damage to the existing proposals. This country cannot afford to wait any longer to deal with the issue of applications for offshore renewable energy. The matter is too important. The number of onshore jobs which would be created by the development of offshore energy is enormous. I will outline an example. I spoke to a large multinational company yesterday which bought a company in Denmark with approximately 50 employees some years ago. Today it employs 3,500 people in the manufacturing of turbines alone.

If somebody arrived at the Taoiseach’s door tomorrow and said he or she wished to invest in this country and could guarantee that within a short space of time 3,500 jobs could be created in manufacturing alone, every agency in the State would be crawling over the person involved. He or she would be having dinner in Farmleigh and would be brought to every State function, and rightly so if he or she was bringing inward investment into the country. We are ignoring those who are crying out for immediate action to be taken to enable them to get on with their investments.

That is why, as I said in my initial contribution, it is essential that in dealing with this issue the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources is included. One cannot develop offshore energy unless there is a connection to the grid. A new grid must be built which is capable of carrying sufficient power so we could be net exporters of electricity into the interconnection into Britain and Europe.

The European Union is proposing a super grid structure, which is part of what we voted on in the referendum on the Lisbon treaty, namely, that we would enable the European Union to develop a European energy policy. We are an island nation sitting on the western extremity of Europe and are currently totally dependent on gas from Russia. We have a resource which people are crying out to invest in and we do not have the legislative structure for them to do so.

I ask anybody on the other side of the House to get up off their backsides and go to meet people who wish to invest. The Government should not listen to me if it does not believe me, but it can come to our committee when such people appear before it and listen to their complaints. It could look up the website where we published the remarks we received from all types of people, including investors and members of the public, regarding our future electricity requirements.

We are spending €6.5 billion each year on importing fossil fuels into the country. Within a relatively short space of time we could transfer that money into the development of a business which would produce exports. Instead of sending €6.5 billion out of the country we could [96]develop an industry here with a natural resource, but we do not have the structures to do so. This Bill does not provide for these structures.

As I said at the outset, the Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security has produced a Bill which has not been examined. There is no mention in the Bill we are debating of bodies such as the Marine Institute, which has all the necessary information and has done all the mapping. The committee has nominated the Marine Institute as the planning authority to draw up a development plan. It is based in the Minister of State’s constituency, which is the correct place for it because all the major offshore development will take place off the west coast. If we get our finger out, places like Mayo and Galway will become the Aberdeen of Ireland in the not too distant future.

It is an absolute disgrace that not only will people not listen to us but they deliberately ignore us. Having produced a Bill 12 months ago, the Leader of the Opposition and I have constantly asked where the Bill has gone. We sent it to the correct place, the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, but nobody seems to care. The other side of the House is entertaining the unions, telling us how to run the country and where we will get cuts. We have an opportunity to create jobs and inward investment but nobody is bothering to create the circumstances in which such development can take place. One cannot take €16 billion, which is waiting to be invested, and throw it away. With every day that passes, investment is going to other countries. If the Government does not believe me, it should talk to the people concerned. The investment has gone to Portugal, Denmark and Scotland. People are opening their arms to such investment.

I met Irish investors recently who have spent €52 million so far on developing a machine for tidal energy, which is being tested in Nova Scotia and Scotland because they cannot get a foreshore licence to do it here as we do not have the structures in place. We are rushing this Bill through the Dáil in two hours. It is no wonder the public is cynical about what is happening in this place. It is outrageous and people like me and others on the Opposition benches are wasting our time trying to encourage people to invest in this country. The Government, which has the power to do so, will not bother to introduce the necessary structures for that to happen. It is an absolute disgrace and if it cannot be bothered to allow investment to happen and stop the haemorrhage of jobs and investment from the country, the sooner it leaves its position the better.

I apologise for taking up so much time, but it is the only chance I have on the floor of the House to discuss the disgrace which is taking place. It has taken the Government two and a half years to get to the stage where it is transferring responsibility for foreshore licences from the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. We are a laughing stock. That we are an island nation and the Foreshore and Dumping at Sea (Amendment) Bill 2009 is being handled by the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is a subject for a pantomime. It is a joke.

One can imagine the outcry in the country if it were decided to abolish the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. The farmers would be marching on the streets. However, with the stroke of a pen Fianna Fáil abolished the Department of the Marine without consulting anybody. It is an absolute disgrace.

Deputy Andrew Doyle: Information on Andrew Doyle  Zoom on Andrew Doyle  I support this amendment. Unless amendments such as this are incorporated in the Bill, it is a wasted opportunity and time will be lost. I could not agree more with Deputy Barrett’s contribution. Instead of abolishing the Department of the Marine, we should have enhanced its role to include natural resources and developed that area. Some 93% of the territory of the country is under water, which is a significant resource. The Minister of State’s [97]speech noted that the guiding principle of moving the role and function, in terms of licensing, to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government was because its primary role was to pursue sustainable development.

We have an opportunity. We cannot bury the review of the foreshore licensing legislation any longer and waste more time. As Deputy Barrett said, Irish and non-Irish companies are waiting to invest millions of euro in this area and trials are being moved from this country to other parts of the world in an effort to develop prototypes.

It is not sufficient to say that only seven of the 420 licensed wind turbines have been allowed. There are other reasons for that. Wave and tidal power stand waiting to be developed. As I said in last night’s debate on climate change, when the Gulf states discovered they had a resource and an energy source in abundance that the world needed, they got their act together and have had 40 years of sustained economic growth which they have invested well. The Celtic tiger might have been the Lotto 1 squandered, but this is an open door to the Lotto 2. We are procrastinating and waiting for another Bill. While the Bill is not perfect, it will be improved if the Minister of State accepts the amendment.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  I support the amendment. I cannot understand why there could not be a faster track licensing system for licensing anything located at sea. We need to segregate those applications which have had an extension of the planning legislation towards them. In other words, there is a distinction between onshore applications and marine applications. Where they are purely marine applications, I suggest that the Minister of State, in the spirit of the co-operation on offer from all sides of the House, should take the survey by the Marine Institute and the economic plan — it had actually produced a plan on economic opportunities for marine based development — and in the short term look at the licensing system for that in accordance with standards already laid down. There is no reason not to fast-track that grouping. Where contentious issues arise regarding consultation, they are nearly always ones where, for example, the Planning and Development Act 2000 has extended into areas contiguous to local authority control zones and whatever. There is considerable merit in seeking to get the maximum employment yield from what can be done in the quickest possible term, driven on by organisations like the Marine Institute and the research institutions.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  The Deputies have made four different points, one of which is relevant to the amendment. The question of abolishing and setting up the Marine Institute was discussed on Second Stage and I set out the reasons and history regarding this country and other countries. Deputy Barrett mentioned his committee’s proposals previously, which refer to another Department. Regarding the research trials, my recollection and understanding is that the Marine Institute has approval for its research sites in Galway Bay and that a site investigation licence was issued for the only other one, of which I am aware, in the Mayo area, but it was not acted upon for reasons that had nothing to do with the grid or the granting of the licence. I understand they were for the reasons I outlined on Second Stage.

Regarding the amendment, the Bill is specifically concerned with transferring foreshore functions from one Department to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has indicated that he intends to reform significantly the foreshore legislation. As I outlined at the end of Second Stage, three phases are involved, one of which was completed in September 2008. This legislation represents the second stage and the third stage which involves a degree of consultation with stakeholders and the wider public will come next, which the Minister, Deputy Gormley, has indicated he intends doing.

[98]Of course I agree with the arguments and principle outlined by Deputy Creed because we want to see this happening as quickly as possible. However, it would be entirely inappropriate to place time constraints on a process that requires the input of stakeholders and interested parties into the legislation. It would be inappropriate if the third phase, modernising the foreshore licensing in legislation, was constrained in time and not done properly. While I understand the intent and obviously will use any influence I have to have it happen as quickly as possible, we need to have a reasonable degree of consultation.

All the major issues outlined by Deputies Higgins, Ferris, Cuffe and virtually every other speaker in elements of their speeches are taken into account.

Deputy Michael Creed: Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  I am disappointed by the response of the Minister of State. We are seeking to put a timeframe on it because of the economic imperative. Too much of this debate is open-ended and too much is taken on good faith. Regrettably, that good faith has not been honoured. We need only consider the last amendment I tabled on aquaculture licensing and the delays there. This amendment sets a timeframe. This is a sector that has enormous economic potential and I ask the Minister of State to reconsider.

Deputy Seán Barrett: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  It is ridiculous to divide up responsibility and give the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government responsibility for foreshore licensing. It is not possible to develop a marine policy to deal separately with offshore renewable energy, fisheries and commercial transport. They are all integrated. Our proposal is that the Marine Institute should be the planning authority and should draw up the development plan. It is not possible to draw up a development plan for offshore activities without taking into account all the other activities, including fisheries, ferries and normal commercial traffic on our seas. Here we are, an island nation, dividing responsibility between the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, which mainly deals with onshore activities and the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. The activities will now be spread all over the place. It makes basic common sense to anybody that when developing a resource — in this case our waters — we should make certain that responsibility for all the activities in that area is in the one place in order to have a co-ordinated plan. This is why the amendment placing a six-month time limit is so important. We cannot afford to wait — we do not have that luxury.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  The philosophy underpinning this legislation is that there is a relationship between spatial planning on land and at sea and for that reason the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is the appropriate one for dealing with these issues. The sea fisheries responsibilities will remain with the Department that has food and agriculture responsibilities.

I agree with a number of the proposals that Deputy Barrett mentioned. However, I fundamentally disagree with undermining the independent standing of the Marine Institute as a scientific body, which is extremely important in strategic terms for Ireland, in fishery terms and indeed in consideration of any of these matters. While there is a strong case to be made for bringing that planning element under one body, I would be very strongly opposed to the Marine Institute being it.

In this instance I believe the timeframe proposed does not belong in the Bill. I do not believe it is attainable and it could impact negatively on the capacity of people to have an input if they so desire.

Amendment put and declared lost.

[99]

Question proposed: “That section 5 stand part of the Bill.”

Deputy Seán Barrett: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  I wish to point out to the Minister of State that where our proposals refer to the Marine Institute as the planning authority, it meant an authority to draw up a development plan. The planning authority in dealing with planning applications would be An Bord Pleanála through the critical infrastructure provisions.

Question put and agreed to.

Question proposed: “That section 6 stand part of the Bill.”

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Section 6(1) proposes inter alia to insert the following:

What is meant by the phrase “which for the time being belongs to the State”? I would like the Minister of State to give an assurance that ownership by the people of the entire foreshore as outlined in Articles 10.2, 10.2 and 10.3 of the Constitution is not affected in any way. This provision disturbingly suggests that the State might dispose of the foreshore. I understand that when licensing the State gives a 99-year lease. There is, in some of the older Foreshore Acts, the dangerous possibility of adversarial possession by people who are effectively squatting on a public property. I ask the Minister to clarify that there is no mitigation of rights in this regard. I am interested in how the wording “which for the time being belongs to the State” came to be. The Minister has not in any of his speeches so far spoken about the vesting, sale or disposal by the State to private interests of what is public property.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  I understand the term referred to by Deputy Higgins is a parliamentary drafting term. As far as I can see he is referring to page 9 of the Bill, which refers to “foreshore which for the time being belongs to the State, including foreshore so belonging whether by virtue of Article 10.2 of the Constitution or otherwise.” It must be pointed out that as a general principle, foreshore licences are extended for a period of 35 years. There have been some for 99 years but they are the exception rather than the rule. There may well be elements of foreshore which are currently assigned by foreshore licences to individuals, bodies or companies; I understand the wording to which the Deputy refers is the drafting device for referring to the remainder.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  There are references in the old case law to 17th century grants by the king of rights to the foreshore. I would like an assurance from the Minister that in phase 3 — the next piece of legislation — there will be an absolute quenching of any such rights, which are an abuse of the constitutional position under Articles 10.1, 10.2 and 10.3 and have caused incredible grief in different places. There is no basis for it in contemporary law, but there are some private claims. This needs to be quenched.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  Deputy Higgins has raised an interesting point which was also raised by a number of Deputies on Second Stage. There are two functions in the area of foreshore licensing; one is ownership and the other is use, which is analogous to planning. There have [100]been historical ownership issues, some of which are claimed to be extant. The important thing about this legislation is that there is no change whatever in the current situation with regard to public ownership of any of the foreshore. Another Department will deal with the next Bill so I cannot give the Deputy an undertaking in that regard.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  There must be a commitment from the new authority that it will vindicate the constitutional right of the State under Article 10.3. It is the State, on behalf of all of the people, that owns all resources on the foreshore. Therefore, any attempt to exclude the public is wrong and unconstitutional. I ask that the new authority, when it moves to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, become the equivalent of an activist in terms of enforcing the rights of the public.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  I understand there may be some interesting case law in this area.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  There is.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  I am sure the Department will consider this closely. I strongly agree with the principle enunciated by the Deputy.

Question put and agreed to.

Section 7 agreed to.

Deputy Michael Creed: Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  I move amendment No. 2:

This amendment proposes to oblige the Minister, when considering granting a foreshore licence in the vicinity of either Carlingford or Lough Foyle, to consult with the relevant Department in the Northern Ireland Assembly. This makes sense and I ask the Minister of State to accept the amendment.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  The intent of this section is to ensure co-ordination between the two Departments involved after the transfer of functions, which is vital for the efficient and effective operation of the Foreshore Acts. There is already routine initiation of consultation with other authorities in certain cases and I have no doubt that will continue. In any event, there is an obligation on each of the Ministers to consult with the appropriate authorities under the European Communities (Foreshore) Regulations 2009, SI 404, which specifically provide for trans-boundary consultation in cases in which an environmental impact statement accompanies the application. Thus, the issue is already dealt with.

Deputy Michael Creed: Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  Is the Minister of State accepting the amendment?

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  It is already provided for. We must avoid duplication because that would raise questions about non-duplication in other instances.

Deputy Michael Creed: Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  I accept the Minister’s assurances.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

[101]Section 8 agreed to.

Sections 9 to 11, inclusive, agreed to.

Deputy Martin Ferris: Information on Martin Ferris  Zoom on Martin Ferris  I move amendment No. 2a:

This amendment is complementary to that tabled by Deputy Higgins in that it would ensure local interest groups are given a say in how enterprises develop in their areas. There are painful memories of certain events that have occurred in the past two years, including the jailing of what I would call community activists for standing up against powerful multinationals which, shamefully, were supported by the Government and the legal system. I am referring to areas such as Rossport, Ballinaboy and the Corrib area, the latter of which contains fantastic resources. Nobody was against the bringing to shore of these resources, but there was a need for provisions to ensure the safety of the community as a whole. We have seen the latest results in this regard from An Bord Pleanála, which came down in favour of the community activists.

We seek to democratise this Bill. The Green Party, which is currently in government, sat on this side of the House and, in its position in opposition, advocated the decentralisation of power and its delegation to local communities, yet its members now stand against the communities they claimed to support. It is amazing what power does to people. It corrupts absolutely.

We do not ever again want to see citizens imprisoned as a result of their genuine concerns for their community. We do not want to see a multinational oil company paying for a facility for a political party at the Galway races. We do not want to see substantial donations from major oil companies compromising the political system of the State. What we want to see is the utilisation of our resources for the benefit of all. In particularly, we want to ensure that the rights of people and communities are protected. People who have genuine concerns, such as the concerns of those in the Rossport area about the laying of a gas pipeline at their own back doors, must be protected. I ask the Minister to consider accepting this amendment in the interests of safety, democracy and ownership of our natural resources by the communities at the front line.

Deputy Barrett mentioned the major resource potential of the west coast, all the way from Youghal and around the south coast, up through the Porcupine Basin and as far as the Corrib area. These resources are largely untouched. The political representatives from the latter area will testify to the disastrous decision regarding licensing. Communities must be protected. We want to bring back democracy to local communities and to undo the centralisation of power.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Much of this can be facilitated. The amendment is reasonable.

We will be defeated this evening, but the advantage of preparing for the third phase of the legislation is that some fundamental principles need to be laid down such as are contained in this amendment, namely, the concept of the public ownership of the foreshore, the concept of public usage, the concept of balanced multiple and differentiated usages, be it in terms of seaweed, fishing, access, recreation or public access. I have no hesitation in stating that the idea that any island people would face barbed wire cutting them off from the sea must not be accepted. It simply must be outlawed. More importantly, as Deputy Ferris has said, the sheer scale of what has been visited upon a small Irish-language speaking community is so vast that [102]suddenly they are presented as the people standing in the way of something that is for the greater good, and we are right back to the definition of the public interest. There can be no serious consideration of public interest unless there is adequate consultation. The consultation, to which we will come in a moment, should be not be on behalf of local authorities with managers but with elected public representatives. Neither should it be between corporations and a few people locally but with representative community voices.

This is a simple point. We need jobs and development, but people have a relationship with place and community. The example Deputy Ferris has given is an Irish-language speaking community which one day woke up to find people with an appalling international record for trampling on native people’s rights had moved in on top of them. As the Minister who was responsible for bringing into law some of the protections for the environment and for birds, I must say these were thrown aside. It really was a case of the media getting involved then and, as might be expected, it was the people who had the largest trough of money who counted in the end.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  I understand the principle which Deputy Ferris is trying to establish and have included in the legislation, but it will not surprise him that I disagree with much of the remainder of what he said. The consultation requirements for foreshore consent applications are set out in sections 19 and 19A of the Foreshore Acts together with the European Communities Foreshore Regulations 2009. Public consultation via newspapers circulating in the local area, industry periodicals and the placement of application details in local Garda stations, libraries, etc., is a well-established part of the licensing process. If Deputies Ferris, Michael D. Higgins or anybody else have concerns in that regard, it is a principle established under the Aarhus Convention to which we are signatories — and a number of other directives — which guarantees that the consultation standards are set at a particular level and will continue to apply to both Departments subsequent to the enactment of this legislation.

Deputy Martin Ferris: Information on Martin Ferris  Zoom on Martin Ferris  I do not want to go back over what I stated already. I will press this amendment in the interests of democracy and local accountability. As Deputy Michael D. Higgins stated, it is disgraceful that elected local representatives are excluded and the power given over to unelected bureaucrats or county managers, etc. It is a dangerous step to exclude local democracy.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  As I stated, the intent of Deputy Ferris’s amendment is perfectly clear and is already more than adequately provided for in the legislation and in the convention. There is no merit in duplication in this instance. In fact, it creates all kinds of dangers. I cannot accept the amendment.

Amendment put and declared lost.

Deputy Michael Creed: Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  I move amendment No. 3:

This also is a time-related amendment. We are anxious to ensure there is no undue delay.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  The legislation with which we are dealing gives both Ministers — the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government following consultation with the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food — power to make regulations specifying the [103]bodies which are to submit their observations to either Minister on foreshore applications. I understand the intention of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is to make these regulations quickly. It will address, perhaps, one of the fundamental issues related to delays which was raised by several speakers in the course of the Second Stage debate because there then will be a specified period within which the bodies which have a right to make submissions must make such submissions. It will be dealt with in any event. In the context of the process for doing so, this amendment would be entirely unhelpful and I must reject it.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  I move amendment No. 4:

Put simply, this means a consultation with a local authority could, if one just leaves it like that, be a consultation with a nominated official such as a director of services or a nominee of the city or county manager. This amendment provides for an element of local consultation, in that the elected representatives will be the people who will have an opportunity to hear the proposal. I understood many Members from the Government side spoke in favour of such a development on Second Stage and I hope the Minister of State will accept this amendment.

Deputy Seán Sherlock: Information on Sean Sherlock  Zoom on Sean Sherlock  I support the amendment. The Minister of State spoke of the Aarhus Convention. To my mind, that is a minimal set of standards. In this amendment we seek to buttress that even further to provide for some degree of democratic accountability. It also speaks to the issues raised by Deputy Ferris whereby if it is a reserved function, one is guaranteed it will be wholly democratic and wholly representative.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  As Members will be aware, as a general principle a decision which is relevant to a particular site, individual grant, etc., is generally, under local authority law, a matter for the county manager, whereas the reserved functions of a council in general terms relate to policy making, the adoption of county development plans, etc. As someone who for a long time served as a member of a local authority, I wish our experience nationally had been such that we would be encouraged and in a position to transfer more functions directly to local authority members, but that is not necessarily the case. The effect of the amendment would be to quite strongly contravene Schedule 15 of the Local Government Act 2001 and would go against a principle which is set out fairly strongly in local government law and in planning law heretofore.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  It is set out in planning legislation and it has not worked. The Minister of State draws on his experience and I draw on mine. There is a greater flair for efficient, fast consultation with those who are making a proposal than for wanting to embrace the views of the public in a wide way. I am committed as a person elected to an assembly. For a long time I was a member of two local authorities. I accept that in the long history of local authorities there have been people who behaved in different ways, but the local authority members are still the elected people in whom trust has been placed.

Frankly, I sometimes worry about the bureaucratic way. The most well-meaning suggestions are buried in the new system which has grown up around county and city managers. It would have been an interesting development if the McCarthy report had examined the question of [104]the administration of the State and looked at all the managers. Maybe that is a way to save money. If the Government wants to do something very radical, we will do that on another day.

One of the principles to which I am absolutely committed is that if one holds elections and elects councillors and if one is not satisfied with them, there is another election coming. However, the same is not necessarily true of managers, assistant managers, directors of services and others. Therefore, I am pressing this amendment and will be calling for a vote on it.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  Deputy Higgins is undoubtedly right that it is possible to dispose of all of us who are elected public representatives.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Indeed.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  Unfortunately, decisions which are made by people often have an impact that lives on long past their political careers or even beyond their lifespan.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: Information on Tom Sheahan  Zoom on Tom Sheahan  The evil that men do lives after them.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Like the city manager of Dublin who was not criticised by another city or county manager in the whole country.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Jack Wall): Information on Jack Wall  Zoom on Jack Wall  Deputy Higgins should let the Minister of State reply.

Deputy Tony Killeen: Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  Let me make it clear that I am not defending anybody on either side of the divide. However, there is a long-established principle in local government law and planning law that there is a division between the reserve function performed by elected members and functions performed by the management. In this instance, the particular matter we are dealing with falls into the area normally dealt with by management. I am not in a position to accede to the amendment.

Acting Chairman: Information on Jack Wall  Zoom on Jack Wall  Is the amendment being pressed?

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Yes.

Amendment put.

The Committee divided: Tá, 61; Níl, 66.

Information on Bernard Allen  Zoom on Bernard Allen  Allen, Bernard. Information on James Bannon  Zoom on James Bannon  Bannon, James.
Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Barrett, Seán. Information on Thomas P. Broughan  Zoom on Thomas P. Broughan  Broughan, Thomas P.
Information on Richard Bruton  Zoom on Richard Bruton  Bruton, Richard. Information on Ulick Burke  Zoom on Ulick Burke  Burke, Ulick.
Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Burton, Joan. Information on Catherine Byrne  Zoom on Catherine Byrne  Byrne, Catherine.
Information on Joe Carey  Zoom on Joe Carey  Carey, Joe. Information on Deirdre Clune  Zoom on Deirdre Clune  Clune, Deirdre.
Information on Noel Coonan  Zoom on Noel Coonan  Coonan, Noel J. Information on Joe Costello  Zoom on Joe Costello  Costello, Joe.
Information on Simon Coveney  Zoom on Simon Coveney  Coveney, Simon. Information on Seymour Crawford  Zoom on Seymour Crawford  Crawford, Seymour.
Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  Creed, Michael. Information on Lucinda Creighton  Zoom on Lucinda Creighton  Creighton, Lucinda.
Information on Michael D'Arcy  Zoom on Michael D'Arcy  D’Arcy, Michael. Information on John Deasy  Zoom on John Deasy  Deasy, John.
Information on Jimmy Deenihan  Zoom on Jimmy Deenihan  Deenihan, Jimmy. Information on Andrew Doyle  Zoom on Andrew Doyle  Doyle, Andrew.
Information on Damien English  Zoom on Damien English  English, Damien. Information on Frank Feighan  Zoom on Frank Feighan  Feighan, Frank.
Information on Martin Ferris  Zoom on Martin Ferris  Ferris, Martin. Information on Charles Flanagan  Zoom on Charles Flanagan  Flanagan, Charles.
Information on Terence Flanagan  Zoom on Terence Flanagan  Flanagan, Terence. Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Gilmore, Eamon.
Information on Brian Hayes  Zoom on Brian Hayes  Hayes, Brian. Information on Tom Hayes  Zoom on Tom Hayes  Hayes, Tom.
Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Higgins, Michael D. Information on Brendan Howlin  Zoom on Brendan Howlin  Howlin, Brendan.
Information on Paul Kehoe  Zoom on Paul Kehoe  Kehoe, Paul. Zoom on George Lee  Lee, George.
Information on Kathleen Lynch  Zoom on Kathleen Lynch  Lynch, Kathleen. Information on Dinny McGinley  Zoom on Dinny McGinley  McGinley, Dinny.
Information on Liz McManus  Zoom on Liz McManus  McManus, Liz. Information on Olivia Mitchell  Zoom on Olivia Mitchell  Mitchell, Olivia.
Information on Denis Naughten  Zoom on Denis Naughten  Naughten, Denis. Information on Dan Neville  Zoom on Dan Neville  Neville, Dan.
Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  Ó Snodaigh, Aengus. Information on Kieran O'Donnell  Zoom on Kieran O'Donnell  O’Donnell, Kieran.
Information on Fergus O'Dowd  Zoom on Fergus O'Dowd  O’Dowd, Fergus. Information on Jim O'Keeffe  Zoom on Jim O'Keeffe  O’Keeffe, Jim.
Information on John O'Mahony  Zoom on John O'Mahony  O’Mahony, John. Information on Brian O'Shea  Zoom on Brian O'Shea  O’Shea, Brian.
Information on Jan O'Sullivan  Zoom on Jan O'Sullivan  O’Sullivan, Jan. Information on Willie Penrose  Zoom on Willie Penrose  Penrose, Willie.
Information on Ruairí Quinn  Zoom on Ruairí Quinn  Quinn, Ruairí. Information on Pat Rabbitte  Zoom on Pat Rabbitte  Rabbitte, Pat.
Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  Reilly, James. Information on Michael Ring  Zoom on Michael Ring  Ring, Michael.
Information on Alan Shatter  Zoom on Alan Shatter  Shatter, Alan. Information on Tom Sheahan  Zoom on Tom Sheahan  Sheahan, Tom.
Information on P. J. Sheehan  Zoom on P. J. Sheehan  Sheehan, P. J. Information on Sean Sherlock  Zoom on Sean Sherlock  Sherlock, Seán.
Information on Róisín Shortall  Zoom on Róisín Shortall  Shortall, Róisín. Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  Stagg, Emmet.
Information on David Stanton  Zoom on David Stanton  Stanton, David. Information on Billy Timmins  Zoom on Billy Timmins  Timmins, Billy.
Information on Joanna Tuffy  Zoom on Joanna Tuffy  Tuffy, Joanna. Information on Mary Upton  Zoom on Mary Upton  Upton, Mary.
Information on Jack Wall  Zoom on Jack Wall  Wall, Jack.  


Níl
Information on Dermot Ahern  Zoom on Dermot Ahern  Ahern, Dermot. Information on Michael Ahern  Zoom on Michael Ahern  Ahern, Michael.
Information on Noel Ahern  Zoom on Noel Ahern  Ahern, Noel. Information on Barry Andrews  Zoom on Barry Andrews  Andrews, Barry.
Information on Chris Andrews  Zoom on Chris Andrews  Andrews, Chris. Information on Seán Ardagh  Zoom on Seán Ardagh  Ardagh, Seán.
Information on Bobby Aylward  Zoom on Bobby Aylward  Aylward, Bobby. Information on Joe Behan  Zoom on Joe Behan  Behan, Joe.
Information on Niall Blaney  Zoom on Niall Blaney  Blaney, Niall. Information on Aine Brady  Zoom on Aine Brady  Brady, Áine.
Information on Cyprian Brady  Zoom on Cyprian Brady  Brady, Cyprian. Information on Johnny Brady  Zoom on Johnny Brady  Brady, Johnny.
Information on John Browne  Zoom on John Browne  Browne, John. Information on Thomas Byrne  Zoom on Thomas Byrne  Byrne, Thomas.
Information on Dara Calleary  Zoom on Dara Calleary  Calleary, Dara. Information on Pat Carey  Zoom on Pat Carey  Carey, Pat.
Information on Niall Collins  Zoom on Niall Collins  Collins, Niall. Information on Margaret Conlon  Zoom on Margaret Conlon  Conlon, Margaret.
Information on Sean Connick  Zoom on Sean Connick  Connick, Seán. Information on John Cregan  Zoom on John Cregan  Cregan, John.
Information on Ciaran Cuffe  Zoom on Ciaran Cuffe  Cuffe, Ciarán. Information on Martin Cullen  Zoom on Martin Cullen  Cullen, Martin.
Information on John Curran  Zoom on John Curran  Curran, John. Information on Noel Dempsey  Zoom on Noel Dempsey  Dempsey, Noel.
Information on Jimmy Devins  Zoom on Jimmy Devins  Devins, Jimmy. Information on Frank Fahey  Zoom on Frank Fahey  Fahey, Frank.
Information on Michael Fitzpatrick  Zoom on Michael Fitzpatrick  Fitzpatrick, Michael. Information on Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Zoom on Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Gogarty, Paul.
Information on Mary Hanafin  Zoom on Mary Hanafin  Hanafin, Mary. Information on Mary Harney  Zoom on Mary Harney  Harney, Mary.
Information on Seán Haughey  Zoom on Seán Haughey  Haughey, Seán. Information on Billy Kelleher  Zoom on Billy Kelleher  Kelleher, Billy.
Information on Peter Kelly  Zoom on Peter Kelly  Kelly, Peter. Information on Brendan Kenneally  Zoom on Brendan Kenneally  Kenneally, Brendan.
Information on Michael Kennedy  Zoom on Michael Kennedy  Kennedy, Michael. Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  Killeen, Tony.
Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Kitt, Michael P. Information on Tom Kitt  Zoom on Tom Kitt  Kitt, Tom.
Information on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Zoom on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Lenihan, Brian. Information on Conor Lenihan  Zoom on Conor Lenihan  Lenihan, Conor.
Information on Tom McEllistrim  Zoom on Tom McEllistrim  McEllistrim, Thomas. Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  McGrath, Mattie.
Information on Dr Martin Mansergh  Zoom on Dr Martin Mansergh  Mansergh, Martin. Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  Martin, Micheál.
Information on John Moloney  Zoom on John Moloney  Moloney, John. Information on Michael Moynihan  Zoom on Michael Moynihan  Moynihan, Michael.
Information on M. J. Nolan  Zoom on M. J. Nolan  Nolan, M. J. Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Ó Fearghaíl, Seán. Information on Darragh O'Brien  Zoom on Darragh O'Brien  O’Brien, Darragh.
Information on Charlie O'Connor  Zoom on Charlie O'Connor  O’Connor, Charlie. Information on Willie O'Dea  Zoom on Willie O'Dea  O’Dea, Willie.
Information on Rory O'Hanlon  Zoom on Rory O'Hanlon  O’Hanlon, Rory. Information on Batt O'Keeffe  Zoom on Batt O'Keeffe  O’Keeffe, Batt.
Information on Ned O'Keeffe  Zoom on Ned O'Keeffe  O’Keeffe, Edward. Information on Mary O'Rourke  Zoom on Mary O'Rourke  O’Rourke, Mary.
Information on Christy O'Sullivan  Zoom on Christy O'Sullivan  O’Sullivan, Christy. Information on Peter Power  Zoom on Peter Power  Power, Peter.
Information on Seán Power  Zoom on Seán Power  Power, Seán. Information on Dick Roche  Zoom on Dick Roche  Roche, Dick.
Information on Eamon Ryan  Zoom on Eamon Ryan  Ryan, Eamon. Information on Brendan Smith  Zoom on Brendan Smith  Smith, Brendan.
Information on Noel Treacy  Zoom on Noel Treacy  Treacy, Noel. Information on Mary Wallace  Zoom on Mary Wallace  Wallace, Mary.
Information on Mary Alexandra White  Zoom on Mary Alexandra White  White, Mary Alexandra. Information on Michael J. Woods  Zoom on Michael J. Woods  Woods, Michael.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Pat Carey and John Cregan.

Amendment declared lost.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  I am required to put the following question in accordance with an order of the Dáil of this day: “That the amendments set down by the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food for Committee Stage and not disposed of are hereby made to the Bill, in respect of each of the sections undisposed of that the section is hereby agreed to on Committee Stage, Schedule 1 is amended, Schedule 2 and the Title are hereby agreed to on Committee Stage, that the Bill, as amended, is accordingly reported to the House, Report Stage is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed.”

Question put.

[106]The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 61.

Information on Dermot Ahern  Zoom on Dermot Ahern  Ahern, Dermot. Information on Michael Ahern  Zoom on Michael Ahern  Ahern, Michael.
Information on Noel Ahern  Zoom on Noel Ahern  Ahern, Noel. Information on Barry Andrews  Zoom on Barry Andrews  Andrews, Barry.
Information on Chris Andrews  Zoom on Chris Andrews  Andrews, Chris. Information on Seán Ardagh  Zoom on Seán Ardagh  Ardagh, Seán.
Information on Bobby Aylward  Zoom on Bobby Aylward  Aylward, Bobby. Information on Joe Behan  Zoom on Joe Behan  Behan, Joe.
Information on Niall Blaney  Zoom on Niall Blaney  Blaney, Niall. Information on Aine Brady  Zoom on Aine Brady  Brady, Áine.
Information on Cyprian Brady  Zoom on Cyprian Brady  Brady, Cyprian. Information on Johnny Brady  Zoom on Johnny Brady  Brady, Johnny.
Information on John Browne  Zoom on John Browne  Browne, John. Information on Thomas Byrne  Zoom on Thomas Byrne  Byrne, Thomas.
Information on Dara Calleary  Zoom on Dara Calleary  Calleary, Dara. Information on Pat Carey  Zoom on Pat Carey  Carey, Pat.
Information on Niall Collins  Zoom on Niall Collins  Collins, Niall. Information on Margaret Conlon  Zoom on Margaret Conlon  Conlon, Margaret.
Information on Sean Connick  Zoom on Sean Connick  Connick, Seán. Information on John Cregan  Zoom on John Cregan  Cregan, John.
Information on Ciaran Cuffe  Zoom on Ciaran Cuffe  Cuffe, Ciarán. Information on Martin Cullen  Zoom on Martin Cullen  Cullen, Martin.
Information on John Curran  Zoom on John Curran  Curran, John. Information on Noel Dempsey  Zoom on Noel Dempsey  Dempsey, Noel.
Information on Jimmy Devins  Zoom on Jimmy Devins  Devins, Jimmy. Information on Frank Fahey  Zoom on Frank Fahey  Fahey, Frank.
Information on Michael Fitzpatrick  Zoom on Michael Fitzpatrick  Fitzpatrick, Michael. Information on Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Zoom on Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Gogarty, Paul.
Information on Mary Hanafin  Zoom on Mary Hanafin  Hanafin, Mary. Information on Mary Harney  Zoom on Mary Harney  Harney, Mary.
Information on Seán Haughey  Zoom on Seán Haughey  Haughey, Seán. Information on Billy Kelleher  Zoom on Billy Kelleher  Kelleher, Billy.
Information on Peter Kelly  Zoom on Peter Kelly  Kelly, Peter. Information on Brendan Kenneally  Zoom on Brendan Kenneally  Kenneally, Brendan.
Information on Michael Kennedy  Zoom on Michael Kennedy  Kennedy, Michael. Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  Killeen, Tony.
Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Kitt, Michael P. Information on Tom Kitt  Zoom on Tom Kitt  Kitt, Tom.
Information on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Zoom on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Lenihan, Brian. Information on Conor Lenihan  Zoom on Conor Lenihan  Lenihan, Conor.
Information on Tom McEllistrim  Zoom on Tom McEllistrim  McEllistrim, Thomas. Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  McGrath, Mattie.
Information on Dr Martin Mansergh  Zoom on Dr Martin Mansergh  Mansergh, Martin. Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  Martin, Micheál.
Information on John Moloney  Zoom on John Moloney  Moloney, John. Information on Michael Moynihan  Zoom on Michael Moynihan  Moynihan, Michael.
Information on M. J. Nolan  Zoom on M. J. Nolan  Nolan, M. J. Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Ó Fearghaíl, Seán. Information on Darragh O'Brien  Zoom on Darragh O'Brien  O’Brien, Darragh.
Information on Charlie O'Connor  Zoom on Charlie O'Connor  O’Connor, Charlie. Information on Willie O'Dea  Zoom on Willie O'Dea  O’Dea, Willie.
Information on Rory O'Hanlon  Zoom on Rory O'Hanlon  O’Hanlon, Rory. Information on Batt O'Keeffe  Zoom on Batt O'Keeffe  O’Keeffe, Batt.
Information on Ned O'Keeffe  Zoom on Ned O'Keeffe  O’Keeffe, Edward. Information on Mary O'Rourke  Zoom on Mary O'Rourke  O’Rourke, Mary.
Information on Christy O'Sullivan  Zoom on Christy O'Sullivan  O’Sullivan, Christy. Information on Peter Power  Zoom on Peter Power  Power, Peter.
Information on Seán Power  Zoom on Seán Power  Power, Seán. Information on Dick Roche  Zoom on Dick Roche  Roche, Dick.
Information on Eamon Ryan  Zoom on Eamon Ryan  Ryan, Eamon. Information on Brendan Smith  Zoom on Brendan Smith  Smith, Brendan.
Information on Noel Treacy  Zoom on Noel Treacy  Treacy, Noel. Information on Mary Wallace  Zoom on Mary Wallace  Wallace, Mary.
Information on Mary Alexandra White  Zoom on Mary Alexandra White  White, Mary Alexandra. Information on Michael J. Woods  Zoom on Michael J. Woods  Woods, Michael.



Níl
Information on Bernard Allen  Zoom on Bernard Allen  Allen, Bernard. Information on James Bannon  Zoom on James Bannon  Bannon, James.
Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Barrett, Seán. Information on Thomas P. Broughan  Zoom on Thomas P. Broughan  Broughan, Thomas P.
Information on Richard Bruton  Zoom on Richard Bruton  Bruton, Richard. Information on Ulick Burke  Zoom on Ulick Burke  Burke, Ulick.
Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Burton, Joan. Information on Catherine Byrne  Zoom on Catherine Byrne  Byrne, Catherine.
Information on Joe Carey  Zoom on Joe Carey  Carey, Joe. Information on Deirdre Clune  Zoom on Deirdre Clune  Clune, Deirdre.
Information on Noel Coonan  Zoom on Noel Coonan  Coonan, Noel J. Information on Joe Costello  Zoom on Joe Costello  Costello, Joe.
Information on Simon Coveney  Zoom on Simon Coveney  Coveney, Simon. Information on Seymour Crawford  Zoom on Seymour Crawford  Crawford, Seymour.
Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  Creed, Michael. Information on Lucinda Creighton  Zoom on Lucinda Creighton  Creighton, Lucinda.
Information on Michael D'Arcy  Zoom on Michael D'Arcy  D’Arcy, Michael. Information on John Deasy  Zoom on John Deasy  Deasy, John.
Information on Jimmy Deenihan  Zoom on Jimmy Deenihan  Deenihan, Jimmy. Information on Andrew Doyle  Zoom on Andrew Doyle  Doyle, Andrew.
Information on Damien English  Zoom on Damien English  English, Damien. Information on Frank Feighan  Zoom on Frank Feighan  Feighan, Frank.
Information on Martin Ferris  Zoom on Martin Ferris  Ferris, Martin. Information on Charles Flanagan  Zoom on Charles Flanagan  Flanagan, Charles.
Information on Terence Flanagan  Zoom on Terence Flanagan  Flanagan, Terence. Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Gilmore, Eamon.
Information on Brian Hayes  Zoom on Brian Hayes  Hayes, Brian. Information on Tom Hayes  Zoom on Tom Hayes  Hayes, Tom.
Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Higgins, Michael D. Information on Brendan Howlin  Zoom on Brendan Howlin  Howlin, Brendan.
Information on Paul Kehoe  Zoom on Paul Kehoe  Kehoe, Paul. Zoom on George Lee  Lee, George.
Information on Kathleen Lynch  Zoom on Kathleen Lynch  Lynch, Kathleen. Information on Dinny McGinley  Zoom on Dinny McGinley  McGinley, Dinny.
Information on Liz McManus  Zoom on Liz McManus  McManus, Liz. Information on Olivia Mitchell  Zoom on Olivia Mitchell  Mitchell, Olivia.
Information on Denis Naughten  Zoom on Denis Naughten  Naughten, Denis. Information on Dan Neville  Zoom on Dan Neville  Neville, Dan.
Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  Ó Snodaigh, Aengus. Information on Kieran O'Donnell  Zoom on Kieran O'Donnell  O’Donnell, Kieran.
Information on Fergus O'Dowd  Zoom on Fergus O'Dowd  O’Dowd, Fergus. Information on Jim O'Keeffe  Zoom on Jim O'Keeffe  O’Keeffe, Jim.
Information on John O'Mahony  Zoom on John O'Mahony  O’Mahony, John. Information on Brian O'Shea  Zoom on Brian O'Shea  O’Shea, Brian.
Information on Jan O'Sullivan  Zoom on Jan O'Sullivan  O’Sullivan, Jan. Information on Willie Penrose  Zoom on Willie Penrose  Penrose, Willie.
Information on Ruairí Quinn  Zoom on Ruairí Quinn  Quinn, Ruairí. Information on Pat Rabbitte  Zoom on Pat Rabbitte  Rabbitte, Pat.
Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  Reilly, James. Information on Michael Ring  Zoom on Michael Ring  Ring, Michael.
Information on Alan Shatter  Zoom on Alan Shatter  Shatter, Alan. Information on Tom Sheahan  Zoom on Tom Sheahan  Sheahan, Tom.
Information on P. J. Sheehan  Zoom on P. J. Sheehan  Sheehan, P. J. Information on Sean Sherlock  Zoom on Sean Sherlock  Sherlock, Seán.
Information on Róisín Shortall  Zoom on Róisín Shortall  Shortall, Róisín. Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  Stagg, Emmet.
Information on David Stanton  Zoom on David Stanton  Stanton, David. Information on Billy Timmins  Zoom on Billy Timmins  Timmins, Billy.
Information on Joanna Tuffy  Zoom on Joanna Tuffy  Tuffy, Joanna. Information on Mary Upton  Zoom on Mary Upton  Upton, Mary.
Information on Jack Wall  Zoom on Jack Wall  Wall, Jack.  

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Pat Carey and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.

Question declared carried.


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