Order of Business.Thursday, 1 April 2010 |
Dáil Eireann Debate
Page of 158
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The Tánaiste:
It is proposed to take No. 10, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of an initiative for a directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on the rights to interpretation and to translation in criminal proceedings (back from committee); No. 22a statements on banking; and No. 22b statements on obesity. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 10 shall be decided without debate and, in respect of No. 22a, the statements shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes; the statement of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed ten minutes; the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes; Members may share time; a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and immediately following the statements a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 30 minutes. In regard to No. 22b, the statements of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes and the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes and Members may share time; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes. On rising, the Dáil shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 20 April 2010.
An Ceann Comhairle:
There are four proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10 without debate agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 22a agreed?
Deputy Enda Kenny:
I welcome that time has been provided for statements on banking and for a questions and answers session in this regard, as agreed by Government on Tuesday. Perhaps the Tánaiste will provide clarification on the following matter. I note the Anglo Irish Bank report states: “We continually invest in the development and training of our staff as well as maintaining quality relationships with our stakeholders...”
An Ceann Comhairle:
There will be a questions and answers session following the statements.
Deputy Enda Kenny:
I know that. I am trying to be helpful.
Deputy Timmy Dooley:
Is this the abridged version?
Deputy Enda Kenny:
The report continues: “At Anglo Irish Bank we recognise our corporate obligations and responsibilities and are committed to fulfilling them.” In regard to the statements and questions and answers session, can we take it that in view of the comment by Mr. Peter Bacon, the architect in part of the structure of NAMA, who today described Anglo Irish Bank as the Celtic Chernobyl and in view of the extent of intensive activity——
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy is holding up progress towards the statements and questions and answers session.
Deputy Enda Kenny:
I am not holding up progress. In view of the intense activity between Anglo Irish Bank and the Government after the guarantee date, does the Government propose to extend the scope of the inquiry beyond the guarantee date? This would be in the interests of everybody finding out the truth in this regard.
Will the Government respond to the fact that Anglo Irish Bank wrote off €109 million in loans for directors? Before the statements commence, will the Tánaiste confirm, in view of the [188]employment situation in respect of the Quinn Group, if there has been contact between Anglo Irish Bank and the Government in respect of Mr. Quinn who is a major stakeholder in that bank?
An Ceann Comhairle:
I must advise the Deputy that all of these questions can be posed during the questions and answers session.
Deputy Enda Kenny:
I am entitled to ask these questions.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I do not disagree. I am just pointing out that for the proper order and running of the House——
Deputy Enda Kenny:
With respect, the Cheann Comhairle——
An Ceann Comhairle:
I am not in any way diminishing the Deputy’s rights in these matters. I am just pointing out that the Deputy will have an opportunity to pose questions later.
Deputy Enda Kenny:
——is putting his foot in an area that is not his responsibility now.
Deputy James Bannon:
Hear, hear.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I have responsibility for the proper running of the House.
Deputy Enda Kenny:
Yes, the Ceann Comhairle is responsible for the running of the House and I am fully in accordance with the rules in asking this question of the Tánaiste before statements commence.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I call Deputy Burton.
Deputy Enda Kenny:
I am fully in accordance with the rules of the House.
Deputy Joan Burton:
The financial announcements yesterday by Anglo Irish Bank included a statement that the Government had issued an €8.3 billion promissory note, IOU, to the bank. The Labour Party has agreed to the arrangements as outlined by the Tánaiste but no detailed advice has been made available to us as the Opposition in regard to under what legislation the €8.3 billion promissory note——
An Ceann Comhairle:
The observation applied to Deputy Kenny applies also to Deputy Burton.
Deputy Joan Burton:
If the Ceann Comhairle will bear with me, I am making a point. We have accepted the arrangements and will not vote against them now——
An Ceann Comhairle:
I do not disagree with the merit of the question but I am saying the opportunity will arise later to ask it.
Deputy Joan Burton:
Momentous decisions have been taken in our name. I am asking the Tánaiste——
An Ceann Comhairle:
All of those points can be made during statements on banking.
[189]Deputy Joan Burton:
——if the Government will undertake to give more time to this issue when the Dáil returns. A commitment of €8.3 billion, signed without the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, telling us yesterday that it was going into the Anglo Irish Bank accounts, payable at €830 million a year for the next ten years——
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy Burton, this is not contemplated on the Order of Business.
Deputy Joan Burton:
We were not told that. This is a milestone.
An Ceann Comhairle:
This is not contemplated at all.
Deputy Joan Burton:
Will the Government agree to come back to this and to allocate more time——
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy will have an opportunity to ask that question later on——
Deputy Joan Burton:
——to the bank discussion after Easter?
An Ceann Comhairle:
——if we could proceed to statements.
Deputy Joan Burton:
We are agreeing to the order but will the Government say now that it will give the Opposition more information about the deal done with Anglo Irish Bank that appeared in the bank’s accounts yesterday?
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy, there is provision for a questions and answers session following statements.
Deputy Joan Burton:
Yes, but only 30 minutes have been allocated.
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy will be able to put her questions within a short period.
Deputy Joan Burton:
I want a commitment from the Government that it will give the Opposition a further briefing and come back after Easter and spend longer than 30 minutes on questions on this matter. This is the future of our country.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I am not disagreeing with the Deputy. The opportunity will be available to the Deputy later——
Deputy Joan Burton:
This is war reparations. This is similar to what happened after Versailles and after the Franco-Prussian War.
An Ceann Comhairle:
This type of behaviour is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
Deputy Joan Burton:
Irish taxpayers are carrying a debt now——
An Ceann Comhairle:
I ask Deputy Burton to resume her seat.
Deputy Joan Burton:
——that has been put on them——
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy Burton, resume your seat.
Deputy Joan Burton:
The Ceann Comhairle does not want us to discuss this.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I do. I am pointing out to the Deputy that she will have ample opportunity to make these points later on.
[190]Deputy Joan Burton:
The Ceann Comhairle is like the guy who gets the debt collectors bill in the door and decides not to open it.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy, please resume your set.
Deputy Joan Burton:
We want a discussion.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:
Before Sinn Féin indicates acceptance or otherwise of the proposition in regard to speaking time on the banking issue, on Tuesday this week Government Members of this House supported a motion which transferred €1.93 billion of debt from Bank of Ireland to NAMA yet——
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy Ó Caoláin provision has been made for statements later——
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:
Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle will allow me to finish my question.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Provision has also been made for Deputies to ask questions.
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:
Give me a break. The situation is that on the back of that public aid to Bank of Ireland it has in the past couple of days increased the premia on its home insurance customers by in excess of 50%.
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy will have to hold that question and seek that information later.
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:
Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle’s letter will be there when he gets home this evening.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy, please.
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:
The Ceann Comhairle needs to understand——
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy is holding up the Order of Business.
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:
No. This is an important matter that needs to be publicly aired and to have public attention drawn to it.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I do not disagree with the Deputy.
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:
This is happening at the same time as Government is pressing ahead with proposals to bail out these banks. The Minister signalled the Bank of Ireland as the strongest and most likely to survive in all the circumstances maintaining, yet at a time when property is valued at least 50% less than heretofore it has increased——
An Ceann Comhairle:
I must ask the Deputy to co-operate.
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:
In some instances, there is a 50% increase in premia that I have noted during the past couple of days.
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy is holding up the proceedings of the House.
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:
Our offices were in contact with the bank this morning and it has confirmed that it has done this.
[191]An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy, please.
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:
Is it any wonder the Minister could say Bank of Ireland’s future is rosy and profitable? The only way the people can deal with this is to withdraw their custom.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Is the proposal for dealing with No. 22a, statements on banking, agreed?
Deputy Enda Kenny:
No. I wish to be helpful. I asked the Tánaiste three questions to which I would like an answer.
The Tánaiste:
I take the opportunity this morning to say that we are all appalled at what happened in Anglo Irish Bank.
Deputy Emmet Stagg:
The Tánaiste’s party caused it.
The Tánaiste:
We are all appalled by that, lest it not be said in this House.
The Tánaiste:
It is also important to say——
Deputy Charles Flanagan:
They were not appalled in the tent.
A Deputy: We are not answerable to Deputy Charles Flanagan.
The Tánaiste:
There has perhaps been a misinterpretation of what is happening. I want to reaffirm to this House and the people that all of the company directors loans will be vigorously pursued.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputies, please. One speaker at a time.
The Tánaiste:
I reiterate that I have full confidence in the Garda investigation that has been taking place and in regard to which considerable progress has been made. The investigation has been vigorous and focussed.
Deputy Jim O’Keeffe:
Some 62 people were imprisoned last year for not paying their television licence fees.
The Tánaiste:
We await the outcome of the joint investigation by the Garda and Director of Corporate Enforcement.
The Tánaiste:
It is important to say, on the issue of the scope of the inquiry, that the Government agreed to the holding of an inquiry to deal with the issues that arose heretofore on the basis that it is hugely important that this information is available to us.
Deputy Joan Burton:
The inquiry stops on 30 September.
The Tánaiste:
I say also to the Labour Party that there have been five hours of discussion on this matter.
[192]Deputy James Reilly:
And 50 years of repayments.
The Tánaiste:
Provision has been made for statements and a questions and answers session in the House today on this matter. It is not the intention of Government to provide more time.
Deputy Joan Burton:
A Cheann Comhairle, I object. That is a disgraceful answer.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy Burton cannot come in any more. I ask the Deputy to resume her seat.
Deputy Joan Burton:
They are disgraceful actions. No wonder they ruined the country. They are not even willing to discuss it.
Deputy Emmet Stagg:
On a point of order——
An Ceann Comhairle:
We need some co-operation.
Deputy Enda Kenny:
I will co-operate fully with the Chair.
Deputy Emmet Stagg:
On a point of order——-
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy Kenny is on a point of order.
Deputy Enda Kenny:
I want to repeat my two questions to the Tánaiste which she did not answer. Will the Government extend the inquiry beyond the date of the guarantee? There was intense activity between Anglo Irish Bank and the Government. We need to know the truth about what happened in there.
Deputy James Reilly:
Hear, hear.
Deputy Enda Kenny:
I understand there is a great deal more to come out which will not be very edifying. We need the inquiry to be extended beyond that date . Will that be the case? In view of the many messages now coming through about people who are worried about their employment in the Quinn Group, was the Government, through the Minister for Finance, in contact with Anglo Irish Bank as it is the Quinn Group’s bank?
An Ceann Comhairle:
Very briefly, Tánaiste.
Deputy Eamon Gilmore:
On a point of order, in her reply the Tánaiste indicated that today’s exchanges would be the conclusion of the discussion on the banking issue. As Deputy Burton has pointed out, we agreed yesterday to the 90-minute arrangement which is provided for today. Our understanding in agreeing to that was that the debate would resume on the issue after Easter and would remain on the Order Paper in the same way as, for example, statements on the budget remain on the Order Paper and are returned to over a period of time. I would like the Tánaiste to clarify that point.
My second point also concerns a point of order. On the issue of the banking inquiry, the Government issued a statement yesterday evening in which it stated that it would make available papers and documents to the inquiry if it sought them. The papers and documents concerned are relevant to the Government’s decision to include Anglo Irish Bank in the bank guarantee scheme. The problem with that, from the point of view of the Standing Orders of the House, is that the terms of reference of the inquiry exclude the Government’s decisions in respect of the guarantee and the month of September 2008. I want the Tánaiste to clarify a point regarding this matter, namely, whether the Government will bring into the House a [193]proposal to amend the terms of reference of the inquiry to allow for the Government’s decisions to be subject to the inquiry and to allow September 2008, which was a critical month, to be subject to that inquiry.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Those questions would be ideal for a question and answer period.
Deputy Michael D. Higgins:
No, they would not.
The Tánaiste:
The statements will wrap up this afternoon. The Central Bank Bill will be up for discussion when we resume after the Easter break. In normal circumstances, there are many opportunities to raise these issues during the questioning of the Minister during Question Time. If people consider other debates to be important, this matter can be discussed between the Whips. Today I am not in a position to give extra time.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Standing Order 26 does not allow——
Deputy Eamon Gilmore:
There was agreement.
An Ceann Comhairle:
We cannot have it.
Deputy Eamon Gilmore:
I did not offer on this issue at the beginning of the discussion——
An Ceann Comhairle:
This is contempt.
Deputy Eamon Gilmore:
——-because the arrangement whereby 90 minutes would be agreed for discussion of this issue today was agreed yesterday. The Labour Party agreed to that yesterday and I intend that it will honour that agreement.
Deputy Michael D. Higgins:
Yes.
Deputy Eamon Gilmore:
Part and parcel of that agreement was an understanding that we would be enabled to return to this issue after Easter. I do not want that opportunity to be closed down because it would be quite different from what we agreed to yesterday. Statements on banking policy would remain on the Order Paper, in the same way statements on the budget and so on remain on it, and we would return to them as time allows in the period after Easter. That is all I am seeking. If the Tánaiste will confirm that the statements will remain on the Order Paper after Easter, then we are agreed.
The Tánaiste:
The Whips had a meeting yesterday; no guarantee was given.
Deputy Paul Kehoe:
There was no Whips’ meeting.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy Kehoe, please.
The Tánaiste:
No guarantee was given that there would further be consideration. However——
Deputy Emmet Stagg:
The Whips did not have a meeting yesterday.
The Tánaiste:
Wait one minute.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy Stagg, please.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
Have a bit of manners.
[194]An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy Stagg, we can only have one speaker at a time, otherwise people will not be heard in the House.
Deputy Emmet Stagg:
The Tánaiste is inadvertently misleading the House. The Whips did not meet yesterday.
The Tánaiste:
The Whips were contacted about this issue. No guarantee was given. However, there was an indication, which I gave——
Deputy Phil Hogan:
Guarantees are only given to banks.
The Tánaiste:
——a few minutes ago and which the Deputy did not happen to hear, that the Whips can meet and discuss this matter. If there is a necessity for further discussion that can be agreed between the Whips. That is all I said.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Is the proposal for dealing with No. 22a, statements on banking, agreed?
Question, “That the proposal for dealing with No. 22a, statements on banking”, put and declared carried.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Is the proposal for dealing with No. 22b, statements on obesity, agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 20 April 2010 agreed?
Deputy Eamon Gilmore:
It is not agreed. The proposal is that the Dáil shall adjourn until Tuesday, 20 April 2010. It has been the tradition that the Dáil adjourns for a fortnight for Easter. Whatever argument there may have been in the past about whether that is a good or bad idea or good or bad practice, it is certainly not acceptable for the times in which we are living. There is a range of things which we need to address, including the results issued yesterday regarding Anglo Irish Bank which is now in State ownership, the worst ever results in corporate history, the difficulties facing the Quinn insurance group and implications of that for health insurance and the release yesterday of the live register figures which would normally receive much more attention than they got.
It is a mark of the sign of the times that 435,000 people are on the live register, the tenth successive month which it has been over 400,000. We need to discuss the industrial relations situation and the cuts in the education service, some of which was debated yesterday in respect of SNAs. There is no justification for this. When we address this issue we should take account of how these decisions are seen by the public who send us here. The idea that, at a time like this with so many issues which require attention, the Dáil should be closed down for over a fortnight for Easter is not acceptable and credible. The Labour Party is opposed to this proposal.
Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:
I share the same opinion. The proposal to go into recess for two weeks is excessive. A single week for Easter is more than adequate, appropriate and justifiable but to go into a second week, even though that has been the precedent heretofore is in the current circumstances, as has been well outlined, not in any way sustainable, no matter what explanation can be offered. The Government has not shown the basic argument as to why we should take this decision. Sinn Féin will also oppose this proposal.
Deputy Finian McGrath:
The Independents will be here next.
[195]An Ceann Comhairle:
Is the proposal that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until
2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 20 April 2010 agreed?
The Dáil divided: Tá, 69; Níl, 64.
| Tá | |
|
Ahern, Dermot. |
Ahern, Michael. |
|
Ahern, Noel. |
Andrews, Barry. |
|
Andrews, Chris. |
Ardagh, Seán. |
|
Aylward, Bobby. |
Blaney, Niall. |
|
Brady, Áine. |
Brady, Cyprian. |
|
Brady, Johnny. |
Browne, John. |
|
Byrne, Thomas. |
Calleary, Dara. |
|
Carey, Pat. |
Collins, Niall. |
|
Conlon, Margaret. |
Connick, Seán. |
|
Coughlan, Mary. |
Cregan, John. |
|
Cuffe, Ciarán. |
Curran, John. |
|
Dempsey, Noel. |
Devins, Jimmy. |
|
Dooley, Timmy. |
Finneran, Michael. |
|
Fitzpatrick, Michael. |
Fleming, Seán. |
|
Flynn, Beverley. |
Gogarty, Paul. |
|
Gormley, John. |
Grealish, Noel. |
|
Hanafin, Mary. |
Haughey, Seán. |
|
Healy-Rae, Jackie. |
Hoctor, Máire. |
|
Kelleher, Billy. |
Kelly, Peter. |
|
Kennedy, Michael. |
Killeen, Tony. |
|
Kitt, Tom. |
Lenihan, Brian. |
|
Lenihan, Conor. |
McEllistrim, Thomas. |
|
McGrath, Mattie. |
McGrath, Michael. |
|
McGuinness, John. |
Mansergh, Martin. |
|
Moloney, John. |
Moynihan, Michael. |
|
Mulcahy, Michael. |
Ó Cuív, Éamon. |
|
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán. |
O’Connor, Charlie. |
|
O’Dea, Willie. |
O’Donoghue, John. |
|
O’Flynn, Noel. |
O’Hanlon, Rory. |
|
O’Keeffe, Batt. |
O’Rourke, Mary. |
|
Power, Seán. |
Ryan, Eamon. |
|
Sargent, Trevor. |
Scanlon, Eamon. |
|
Smith, Brendan. |
Treacy, Noel. |
|
Wallace, Mary. |
White, Mary Alexandra. |
|
Woods, Michael. |
|
| Níl | |
|
Bannon, James. |
Behan, Joe. |
|
Breen, Pat. |
Bruton, Richard. |
|
Burke, Ulick. |
Burton, Joan. |
|
Byrne, Catherine. |
Clune, Deirdre. |
|
Connaughton, Paul. |
Costello, Joe. |
|
Coveney, Simon. |
Crawford, Seymour. |
|
Creed, Michael. |
Creighton, Lucinda. |
|
D’Arcy, Michael. |
Deasy, John. |
|
Doyle, Andrew. |
Durkan, Bernard J. |
|
English, Damien. |
Enright, Olwyn. |
|
Feighan, Frank. |
Flanagan, Charles. |
|
Flanagan, Terence. |
Gilmore, Eamon. |
|
Hayes, Brian. |
Hayes, Tom. |
|
Higgins, Michael D. |
Hogan, Phil. |
|
Kehoe, Paul. |
Kenny, Enda. |
|
Lynch, Ciarán. |
Lynch, Kathleen. |
|
McCormack, Pádraic. |
McEntee, Shane. |
|
McGinley, Dinny. |
McHugh, Joe. |
|
McManus, Liz. |
Mitchell, Olivia. |
|
Morgan, Arthur. |
Naughten, Denis. |
|
Neville, Dan. |
Noonan, Michael. |
|
Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín. |
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus. |
|
O’Keeffe, Jim. |
O’Mahony, John. |
|
O’Shea, Brian. |
O’Sullivan, Jan. |
|
O’Sullivan, Maureen. |
Penrose, Willie. |
|
Rabbitte, Pat. |
Reilly, James. |
|
Ring, Michael. |
Sheahan, Tom. |
|
Sheehan, P.J.. |
Sherlock, Seán. |
|
Shortall, Róisín. |
Stagg, Emmet. |
|
Stanton, David. |
Timmins, Billy. |
|
Tuffy, Joanna. |
Upton, Mary. |
|
Varadkar, Leo. |
Wall, Jack. |
Tellers: Tá, Deputies John Curran and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.
Deputy Eamon Gilmore:
The Government Chief Whip, the Minister of State, Deputy Curran, had responsibility for the national drugs strategy. In the reconfiguration of ministerial portfolios, the job previously held by the Minister of State, Deputy Curran, did not reappear. Which Minister is now responsible for the national drugs strategy?
The Tánaiste:
The Minister, Deputy Pat Carey.
Deputy Tom Sheahan:
Given the continuing decline in the tourism sector——
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy, we are hoping things will be in order on the Order of Business.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
There is some hope of that.
Deputy Tom Sheahan:
Without interruption, a Cheann Comhairle. You need this holiday more than the rest of us.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
He certainly does, with fellows like you on the Order of Business.
Deputy Tom Sheahan:
Are any issues that might arise from Ireland’s exclusion from the terms of the Schengen Agreement likely to be dealt with by way of primary or secondary legislation, and if so, to what extent? I refer specifically to the difficulties——
An Ceann Comhairle:
That question would be more appropriate for the line Minister.
Deputy Tom Sheahan:
——experienced by people from the Orient in getting travel visas to this country. We are suffering because of that.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
That is true. It is a valid question.
An Ceann Comhairle:
We are not disagreeing but we are suggesting the Deputy asks a parliamentary question.
Deputy Tom Sheahan:
I am sure the Tánaiste is well up on the Schengen Agreement.
[197]Deputy Tom Sheahan:
I would love to hear her thoughts on same.
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy should submit a parliamentary question after Easter.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
We never get replies to parliamentary questions.
Deputy Tom Sheahan:
We will not get an answer.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
You know the difficulties with parliamentary questions a Cheann Comhairle. It is a valid question.
Deputy Tom Sheahan:
Our tourism season might be over by the time I get the answer.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
When Deputy Durkan is sitting on this side of the House he can decide on that issue.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
I have questions on three items of promised legislation. When will the legislation be introduced to the House to transpose EU directive 2008/6/EC which provides for the completion of the liberalisation of the postal sector in Ireland by 1 January 2011 and to consolidate all previous legislation? Have discussions taken place between the various interested parties? Has the matter been discussed in Cabinet and have the heads of the Bill been agreed? Perhaps the Tánaiste would reply to that question for a start.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
What about the other two questions?
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
I have other questions but I would like to get a clear run at that one first.
The Tánaiste:
The heads of the Bill are being drafted at the moment. It is expected that the Bill will come to the House at the end of the year.
An Ceann Comhairle:
What is the second query on promised legislation?
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
You do realise, a Cheann Comhairle, that the end of the year will be very close to the deadline.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
Not for the first time. The next item relates to the national vetting bureau Bill. That is deemed to be a fairly urgent piece of legislation. I asked about it on 17 February and subsequent to that. The status of the Bill is that publication is expected in 2010. Given that it is serious legislation that is urgently required, what action is taking place to expedite the process through Cabinet?
The Tánaiste:
This is a priority for the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews. The Bill is being worked on as a priority and he hopes to bring it to the House as quickly as possible. It is very complex legislation.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
Everyone agrees that a great deal of crime is committed by persons while on bail. This has been an issue for some considerable time. Legislation is promised and publication is expected but at this stage it is not possible to indicate when. In view of the fact that it is urgently required legislation, which everyone agrees is necessary, could the [198]Tánaiste indicate to the House whether it has been discussed to date in Cabinet and if any action has been taken to try to bring it through this House at an early date?
The Tánaiste:
The bail amendment legislation has not come before Cabinet as of yet but we will try to bring it forward as quickly as possible.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
That is a record. Three questions.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
What action does the Tánaiste intend to take to try to follow that up, other than just appeasing me? I am not a person for appeasement.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
It is a serious question.
An Ceann Comhairle:
We received an answer to it.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
You did well by being in order up to now.
An Ceann Comhairle:
It is being contemplated by the Cabinet.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
What action is being taken to bring it about?
The Tánaiste:
I will raise the matter with the line Minister.
Deputy James Reilly:
I wish to raise two matters. I hope you will agree, a Cheann Comhairle, that they are both in order. I asked the Taoiseach yesterday about “head shops”. All I got were dark mutterings under his breath in response. Could the Tánaiste tell us whether there are any plans to ask the Minister for Health and Children to issue a directive to ensure that all substances sold in “head shops” have to be passed by the Irish Medicines Board and the Food Safety Authority of Ireland. It is a ministerial directive; we do not have to wait for European approval and we can protect our young people immediately.
An Ceann Comhairle:
That is a suitable question for the Minister for Health and Children.
Deputy James Reilly:
I will leave it up to the Tánaiste, who has children herself, to answer the question if she wishes. If she does not, we will get the message.
The second issue I would like to raise is that of Tallaght hospital. We know there was a debacle there in regard to unread X-ray results and that the complement of radiologists at the hospital is half that in St. Vincent’s, although the former hospital sees twice as many patients, both outpatients and accident and emergency patients.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Is the Deputy tying that into legislation?
Deputy James Reilly:
The legislation I refer to is No. 66 on the clár and pertains to the licensing of health facilities. When this legislation is introduced, will it be the intention to address these issues to ensure our health facilities are safe? I am told today that the three posts put in place to address the X-ray issue are filled by locums——
An Ceann Comhairle:
Will the Deputy submit a parliamentary question to the Minister for Health and Children?
Deputy James Reilly:
——and that there are no permanent positions approved for radiology.
[199]An Ceann Comhairle:
This is the Order of Business.
Deputy James Reilly:
This will happen again unless this issue is addressed.
An Ceann Comhairle:
The line Minister would help.
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
Yesterday in the Dáil, a remark made by the Taoiseach was very damaging to my reputation. He referred to me as a “gurrier”. I have looked up the Oxford English Dictionary and the Anglo-Irish dictionary and noted there is no explanation for the word. Therefore, it must be an awfully bad word entirely.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
It is not on the list so one can use it.
Deputy James Reilly:
Did the Deputy find “Biffo” in there?
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
I suggest respectfully to the Tánaiste that she get the Taoiseach to withdraw his remark. I have always been very nice to the Taoiseach.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
Did the Deputy send him an Easter card?
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
I never in all my life called him anything derogatory so I suggest respectfully that his remark be withdrawn.
Is the word “gurrier” on the Ceann Comhairle’s index of unparliamentary language that should not be used in the Dáil?
An Ceann Comhairle:
We would have to check it. We had some spirited exchanges yesterday and I did not hear anything that was said.
Deputy Paul Kehoe:
“Gurrier in chief” was the term the Taoiseach used.
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
The Ceann Comhairle is being informed that the word is on the index of unparliamentary language.
An Ceann Comhairle:
We will check the list.
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
In that case, it should be withdrawn.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
Only if it is on the record.
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
Some people in Galway might not understand what the world “gurrier” means. I do not even know what it means but I know——
An Ceann Comhairle:
We had stormy exchanges yesterday.
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
——it was said in a very derogatory manner.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
The Deputy is such a sensitive soul.
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
My reputation in this Dáil is being damaged by that remark.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
It is a fair point.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Can Deputy McCormack put it on hold for the moment?
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
Will the Tánaiste, on behalf of the Taoiseach, withdraw the remark?
[200]A Deputy: Deputy McCormack is chairman of the parliamentary party.
Deputy Enda Kenny:
The remark should be withdrawn.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
Only if it is on the record.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I did not hear it.
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
I heard it. Worse still, it is repeated in today’s media.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
That is serious.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
So the Deputy finally made the paper.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I call Deputy Terence Flanagan.
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
I will put it on my election literature.
Deputy Terence Flanagan:
I have two quick questions for the Tánaiste on Cadbury Ireland.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
Deputy McCormack is running again.
Deputy Terence Flanagan:
Although the Tánaiste is the Minister for Education and Science, will she outline to the House the progress made on meeting the management of Cadbury Ireland to secure the future of the 1,200 employees in Dublin and Kerry? This is a crucial issue and has been raised frequently in the House by Deputies Bruton and Sheahan of Fine Gael.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Will we need legislation on this?
Deputy Terence Flanagan:
The Ceann Comhairle should give me a moment. When the Taoiseach visited Chicago recently, did he have an opportunity to meet the management at Kraft? We found out yesterday an extraordinary amount of money, £17 million sterling, was awarded to the chief executive of Kraft.
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy will have to take this matter up with the line Minister.
Deputy Terence Flanagan:
She must have thought she must be worth it, despite all the debt.
Deputy Joan Burton:
She must have thought she was working for Anglo Irish Bank.
Deputy Terence Flanagan:
There are 1,200 jobs at stake. If the Tánaiste can do so, will she give us an update?
Has the Government plans to introduce legislation regarding homeowners who signed contracts over the past few years, particularly since 2007?
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy will have to pursue this in another way. The Parliament is——
Deputy Terence Flanagan:
It is an urgent issue. There are only a few hundred people involved.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I really do not doubt the Deputy’s sincerity on the matter.
[201]Deputy Terence Flanagan:
They signed contracts at the height of the property bubble. They face financial ruin as a consequence of the honouring of those contracts.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
Hear, hear.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I advise the Deputy that seeking detailed information on the Order of Business is inappropriate. The Deputy should submit a parliamentary question.
Deputy Terence Flanagan:
My point concerns legislation for homeowners who signed a contract at the height of the property boom. They face financial ruin as a result of these contracts being honoured.
An Ceann Comhairle:
The line Minister will be delighted to discuss the matter during Question Time.
Deputy Terence Flanagan:
Only a few hundred homeowners, a small number, are involved. Will the Tánaiste state whether there is legislation to help these people?
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
There is promised legislation.
The Tánaiste:
There is a group working on it.
Deputy Terence Flanagan:
Is a miscellaneous provisions Bill being worked on?
An Ceann Comhairle:
I call Deputy Stagg.
Deputy Terence Flanagan:
That is not acceptable.
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy is seeking detailed information. A parliamentary question is the way to deal with the matter.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:
That precise legislation was promised in the House by the Minister for Finance on Second Stage of National Asset Management Agency Bill.
An Ceann Comhairle:
We will take it up after Easter.
Deputy Paul Kehoe:
There will be no Easter eggs.
Deputy Emmet Stagg:
When the Ceann Comhairle is dealing with the matter raised by Deputy McCormack, he might also look at the index to see if the word “felon-setter” is in it. The Minister for Foreign Affairs used it in the House on Tuesday to describe Deputy Burton.
Deputy Joan Burton:
I did not know that. He did not tell me personally.
Deputy Emmet Stagg:
It was not very nice.
Deputy Joan Burton:
I will have to take it up with him.
Deputy Emmet Stagg:
The Ceann Comhairle might check it.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I can only adjudicate on matters that I hear. I wish all Members were conscious of their responsibilities under protection.
[202]Deputy Emmet Stagg:
I am aware of the diplomatic deafness that normally afflicts people given the position of Chairman.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
If one cannot take it, one should not give it.
Deputy Emmet Stagg:
On secondary legislation, arising from the reconfiguration of Departments will it be necessary to have orders of the House or motions to regulate the position of committees that mark Departments directly?
The Tánaiste:
There will be a Government order first but I will have to revert to the Deputy on the configuration of committees.
Deputy Emmet Stagg:
I thank the Tánaiste.
Deputy Denis Naughten:
My point refers to promised legislation. In light of the embargo on the recruitment of front line staff in the health service that sees one in five front line posts vacant and which is having a direct impact on services for the elderly, psychiatric services and acute hospitals, it has been brought to my attention that, in recent days, 50% of the staff of one intensive care unit were not present, thereby threatening lives. In light of this fact, when will the nurses and midwives Bill be published? Will the Minister ensure that the embargo on front line health service staff is lifted? It is not a question of finance because the finances are in place in many cases. Front line staff cannot be appointed because of the embargo, thereby putting lives at risk.
Deputy Jan O’Sullivan:
The nurses and midwives Bill is actually on the pink list, which means it should be published before the next session. I do not know if staff will be working during the Easter period but I strongly urge that the Bill be published. A very serious issue is arising for hospitals that do not have enough expert professional staff to serve the public. This is putting patients in danger. We need to see the Bill published.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Is legislation promised in this area?
The Tánaiste:
There is legislation promised. It was approved by the Government on 20 January. There are some technical and drafting matters to be addressed by the Office of the Attorney General prior to publication. That is what has caused the delay. It is expected that the Bill will be published very quickly.
Deputy Joan Burton:
Can I help Deputy McCormack by saying I believe “gurrier“ is derived from the French word “guerre”, which means “war”. “Gurrier” actually means “warrior”.
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
I am very pleased with that.
Deputy Joan Burton:
The Ceann Comhairle should remove it from the list of banned words.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
It depends on how one says it.
Deputy Joan Burton:
Deputy McCormack should take it as a compliment from the Taoiseach made in the heat of the moment.
Deputy Pádraic McCormack:
I will.
[203]Deputy Joan Burton:
Deputy McCormack should tell the Taoiseach to bring it on. It is a compliment.
Deputy Noel Dempsey:
The Deputy can certainly put it on his election literature now.
Deputy Joan Burton:
Yesterday, the European Commission announced that, in the context of the horrendous amounts of money going to the banks, it will carry out an in-depth investigation into the banks, particularly Anglo Irish Bank.
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy is aware we are to have statements on banking very shortly.
Deputy Joan Burton:
I am talking about a Commission statement.
An Ceann Comhairle:
They are to culminate in a questions and answers session.
Deputy Joan Burton:
I am talking about a Commission statement. The statement states that in the earlier part of the year, the Commission——
An Ceann Comhairle:
I am sure the Deputy will be well able to ask her questions at that time.
Deputy Joan Burton:
——had been informed of the €8.3 billion that was going into Anglo Irish Bank.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I want some co-operation so we can get the statements under way.
Deputy Joan Burton:
Has an agreement been reached between the Government and the European Commission on the terms of reference of the in-depth investigation it announced it was launching yesterday?
An Ceann Comhairle:
That question is more appropriate to the Minister for Finance.
An Ceann Comhairle:
There is to be a questions and answers session.
Deputy Joan Burton:
The European Commission deals with the Government. The Tánaiste is the deputy Head of Government. It is a most appropriate question for the deputy Head of Government. It is a most appropriate question for the Tánaiste.
An Ceann Comhairle:
I am not arguing about the appropriateness of the question. I am just saying that the Minister for Finance will be in later. There will be a question and answer session and the Deputy should please ask the question at that stage.
Deputy Joan Burton:
No, this is not a matter between the Minister for Finance and the Commission, but rather between the Government and the Commission. Its statement related to Ireland and it said it is carrying out an in-depth investigation. It said it had reached agreement earlier in the year about the €8.3 billion for Anglo. At that point, did the Government reach an agreement with the Commission about the in-depth investigation?
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy is seeking information on the Order of Business. She will have an opportunity to ask the question later.
Deputy Joan Burton:
Will the Government publish the terms of the Commission investigation——
[204]An Ceann Comhairle:
Will the Deputy please desist?
Deputy Joan Burton:
——and the agreement it has reached with the Commission?
An Ceann Comhairle:
Deputy Burton, please pose the question.
Deputy Joan Burton:
Will the Ceann Comhairle kindly explain to me on what possible grounds that might not be in order?
An Ceann Comhairle:
It is seeking information on the Order of Business.
Deputy Joan Burton:
It is the Government’s business with the Commission.
An Ceann Comhairle:
It is not appropriate to seek detailed information on the Order of Business, and it does not relate to promised legislation.
Deputy Joan Burton:
The Commission announced yesterday an in-depth investigation into everything to do with the banking collapse in Ireland. That includes the Irish Government. Can we just be told whether the Government has been advised and if it has reached an agreement with the Commission?
An Ceann Comhairle:
The Deputy’s question is out of order on the Order of Business. It is as simple as that. I call Deputy Joanna Tuffy.
Deputy Joanna Tuffy:
I want to ask the Tánaiste about a survey that has been carried out by the ASTI which found that one in three schools is dropping a science subject for the leaving certificate. The biggest casualty is physics, followed by chemistry.
An Ceann Comhairle:
As an orderly Member of the House, would Deputy Tuffy please submit a parliamentary question?
Deputy Joanna Tuffy:
If the Ceann Comhairle allows me to finish, he will see that it is in order.
An Ceann Comhairle:
Very briefly.
Deputy Joanna Tuffy:
Apparently, one of the barriers is the perception that science does not relate to everyday life. The Department for which the Tánaiste is responsible has dropped science from its title, so what type of signal does that send out in terms of how science is valued within the Irish education system and in terms of trying to get the economy moving again?
The Tánaiste:
I am on record as Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment as saying that science, technology and innovation are very much to the forefront as regards the skills requirements of this country. How we support young people in taking decisions to participate in science subjects is very much to the forefront of my mind.
Deputy Joanna Tuffy:
Will the Tánaiste reinstate the title?
The Tánaiste:
The title has been changed to indicate greater synergy between the skills needs of this country and educational development. The Deputy may rest assured that the issue of science will be very much to the forefront of what I want to drive as part of the Department.
Deputy Michael D’Arcy:
I want to ask the Tánaiste for her views on the education patrons Bill which, as she will know, facilitates the VECs in becoming patrons of primary schools. What are the Tánaiste’s views on that Bill, because it seems to me this would be a perfect vehicle, in [205]terms of legislation, to allow Educate Together, which is a patron for primary schools, to become a patron for secondary schools?
The Tánaiste:
I shall have to consider that when I am bringing the legislation to Government.
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