Order of Business Thursday, 3 June 2010

Dáil Éireann Debate Vol. 711 No. 3 Page of 169

The Tánaiste:    It is proposed to take No. 10b, Electricity Regulation (Amendment) (Carbon Revenue Levy) Bill 2010, financial resolution; No. 10c, motion re sittings and business of the Dáil; No. 21, Adoption Bill 2009 [Seanad]— Report Stage (resumed), to adjourn at 1 p.m. if not previously concluded and the order shall not resume thereafter; and No. 5, Health [574](Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2010 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 10b and 10c shall be decided without debate and in the case of 10c, the motion and all amendments thereto shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair. The Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 9 June 2010.

An Ceann Comhairle:    There are two proposals to put to the House today. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10b, Electricity Regulation (Amendment) (Carbon Revenue Levy) Bill 2010, financial resolution, and 10c, motion re sittings and business of the Dáil, agreed to?

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I join with the Ceann Comhairle in welcoming Dr. Paisley and his good wife to the Distinguished Visitors Gallery of the Dáil. Over the years we have heard the voice of Dr. Paisley on many issues, usually much louder than mine. I might have disagreed with him on many issues but on one I would always agree, and that is the question of the accountability of parliament.

I disagree with these motions and with the Order of Business. It includes a proposal that the House should come together on Wednesday and Thursday of next week without any accountability, any legislation, any questions to a Minister, any Leaders’ Questions and any Adjournment debate, at a time when we expect that two major banking reports are to be put into the public domain, at a time when the Taoiseach refuses to come in here on Thursday mornings, at a time when the Government clearly has something to hide or is afraid to return to the House to answer questions——

Deputy Brian Hayes:    Hear, hear.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——about its gross abuse and wastage of public money and the fact that it has transferred the debts raised in Anglo Irish Bank onto the backs of the Irish taxpayer.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Hear, hear.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I understand the Minister for Health and Children has written to the chief executive of the Health Service Executive

An Ceann Comhairle:    I am sorry to interrupt Deputy Kenny but the Order of Business is not a catch-all situation.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I am not accepting the Order of Business because the Government expects——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The opportunity to comment on the Order of Business does not provide a catch-all arrangement.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    The Ceann Comhairle might as well adjourn the House because we are not going to get anywhere with this Order of Business.

Deputy Timmy Dooley:    Did the Deputy have holidays booked for next week?

Deputy Enda Kenny:    This Order of Business is not acceptable.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We would much rather hear the Deputy say he will co-operate with the House.

(Interruptions).

[575]Deputy Enda Kenny:    The fact of the matter is that we are being bulldozed into agreeing this Order of Business by the Government which wants to take next week in this House statements on the Ryan commission——

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Hear, hear.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——-which is important. However, there must accountability and parliamentary scrutiny when this House meets. God knows what will happen when the Rachel Corrie reaches or is intercepted by the Israeli navy on its way to Gaza through international waters. We have sought assurances——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is abusing the Order of Business if he continues in this vein.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——-and we need to be vigilant here. As I stand in this Chamber, there are children in this country in positions of great vulnerability.

Deputy Dinny McGinley:    That is correct.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    We know that the HSE has sent children to foster parents who have not been vetted.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Kenny, this is the Order of Business. The opportunity to make those points——

Deputy Enda Kenny:    We know there are children sent into care where no social workers visit them.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I am not disputing the Deputy’s right to make those points but there are other times when he can make them.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    We know there are children who are missing, having been sent into care by the HSE.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Kenny, please.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    We have a situation where the Government continues to pump taxpayers’ money into Anglo Irish Bank which will sink the next generation with debts.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I ask Deputy Kenny to co-operate with the Chair.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    The Government expects us to——

An Ceann Comhairle:    I ask Deputy Kenny to co-operate with the Chair.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——to agree an Order of Business which requires us to come in here next week and do or say nothing and ask no questions of an absent Government, absent Greens and so on.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    We are to do nothing.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I will remind the House of what the absent Green Ministers should remember, namely, when former Minister of State, Deputy Sargent, was leader of the Green Party in 2006——

[576]Deputy Ruairí Quinn:    He turned yellow.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——he said: “The Government wishes to insulate itself from scrutiny and accountability.” This is true.

Deputy Ulick Burke:    All the time.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    This Government has a lot to hide. It does not want to come in here and it expects us to accept this Order of Business——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Kenny, there are specific proposals being put to the House this morning.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——which requires a day of no business. It is a veneer, a charade and a whitewash and I will not stand for it.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    The Opposition is annoyed it has to sit an extra week.

Deputy Michael Ring:    The Minister of State, Deputy Mary White, is wearing yellow today.

Deputy Mary Alexandra White:    Kilkenny colours.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    The Minister of State is not from Kilkenny. She is a Carlow woman.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputies, unless I get co-operation in the House I will have to suspend business.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    The Ceann Comhairle might as well suspend the House. This is a joke.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Gilmore.

Deputy Timmy Dooley:    The Deputy must have booked holidays.

Deputy Ulick Burke:    Where will Deputy Dooley be going?

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    We at least know the difference between red and green.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Kehoe, please. I call Deputy Gilmore.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I think the Kilkenny colour is a deeper yellow.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    Canary yellow.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    The Greens of late are a weak yellow.

I join with Deputy Kenny in welcoming Dr. Paisley and his wife to the House. This is an historic occasion.

The Government proposal before the House this morning in regard to next week is unconstitutional, a matter I will deal with later. I want first to deal with the political context for this proposal. The Government had originally intended that there would be no sitting of the House next week because it was anticipated that the three by-elections——

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    The Whips agreed that last September.

[577]An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Dempsey, please.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    ——which are outstanding, one for a year, would be held next week in conjunction with the referendum on the rights of children. If the Minister, Deputy John Gormley, had got his act together by now in respect of the Lord Mayor of Dublin——

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    He is very seldom here.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    ——we might have had that election too. The Government does not want to hold the by-elections. It is afraid of facing the people. There will not, therefore, be by-elections next week and, because of this, the Government cannot hold the referendum on the rights of children next week. It is quite a cynical position on the part of Government in terms of it being prepared to sacrifice the welfare of children to protect its own political hide. As a result of all of this, the House must sit next week. The Government Chief Whip announced this with some fanfare last weekend.

The proposed sitting for next week comprises a day and a half. I do not have any objection to the business proposed in this regard but the House will be meeting for only a day and a half. If this is not bad enough, we have before us this morning a proposal that next week there will be no oral questions, Order of Business, Adjournment Debates, Requests under Standing Order 32, Private Members’ business or votes.

Deputy Dinny McGinley:    Sin é.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    That type of order for an entire week’s business is arrogant. It shows a Government that is out of touch and that is abusing its majority in the House. It is a muzzling of Parliament. I submit that the proposal is not constitutional. I draw the attention of the House to Article 15.11.1 of the Constitution which states:

The motion before us states: “Notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, unless the Dáil shall otherwise order. . . ” The problem is that if this motion is passed, the Dáil will have no means by which it may otherwise order business in the House next week because it provides that there shall be no votes in the House. I put it to the House that the motion proposed by the Tánaiste is not constitutional and should not be taken in this House. It is unprecedented for any Government to abuse its parliamentary majority by bringing before Parliament a proposal which effectively muzzles it. That proposal and the manner in which it has been presented prevents the House from making a change next week.

Let us suppose an issue arises next week.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    Yes.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    Let us suppose an issue arises in regard to the flotilla approaching Gaza or that there is a national emergency of one type or another.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Joan Burton:    They are like a chorus.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We are on the Order of Business. The Deputy is moving off the point.

[578]Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    There is a contemptuous attitude being portrayed by the Government in this regard.

Deputy Joan Burton:    They are going on their holidays.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    Let us call this what it is, namely, a pretence that the Dáil will be doing normal business next week. The reason for this is that Ministers are going on holidays next week.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    The Government is making a mockery of the Dáil and is running away from its responsibilities.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    The proposal is disgraceful.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    Is the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, going to Spain?

Deputy Michael Ring:    They could not be going on holidays again; they are only back.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Order, please. Before I call Deputy Ó Caoláin, I wish to deal with a few points raised by Deputy Gilmore.

Deputy Joan Burton:    Are Ministers going away again?

Deputy Michael Ring:    Remember the snow.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    Where was the Deputy?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputies, please. I must deal with a number of issues.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    Is the Minister going back to his holiday home in Malta?

An Ceann Comhairle:    A number of issues have been raised that I need to deal with.

Deputy Michael Ring:    ——in the High Court.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Ring, I wish to deal with a number of issues which——

Deputy Michael Ring:    On a point of order——

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    I cannot allow a point of order when there is disorder in theHouse.

Deputy Michael Ring:    On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy cannot raise a point of order when there is disorder in the House.

[579]Deputy Michael Ring:    On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle:    I ask the Deputy to resume his seat. I cannot deal with a point of order when there is disorder in the House.

Deputy Dermot Ahern:    The Deputy is only upsetting himself.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I wish to deal with a number of points raised by Deputy Gilmore. First, the Chair cannot rule on constitutional matters, that is an issue for another venue or another place. The motion before the House is in accordance with the precedents of this House.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    There are no precedents for this.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I wish to deal with another point the Deputy made. The Dáil can next week vary the order if it so decides and so wishes. Votes proposed for next week are merely postponed.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    We can deal with them now.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    On my own behalf and on behalf of my Sinn Féin colleagues in the Dáil Chamber, I join the other party leaders in extending a welcome to Dr. Paisley and his wife. In witnessing the somewhat boisterous exchanges here this morning, I have no doubt the thought, “why have I missed such craic down here in the past?” might have crossed Dr. Paisley’s mind. I would have no objection if he went back and said, “the craic down there is mighty, we should look at it again”.

To turn to the business in hand, on my own behalf and my colleague’s behalf, we strongly object to the ordering of business not only in terms of the approach today but the ordering of business for next week. Make no mistake about it, it is a sham session that is being put together for next week. There is no other way to describe it.

A Deputy:  Exactly.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The critical issue is not only that there will be no questions, Order of Business or Private Members’ business next week but that there will be no votes. Why will there be no votes? The reality must be that the Government is far too afraid or it already knows that it will not be able to muster enough support to ensure the Government’s position if any vote were to be called on any of the matters before the House scheduled for Wednesday and Thursday of next week. That is at the core of what this is all about.

This will not impress the wider population who already have a very understandably jaundiced opinion of political life and the role of politicians in serving their needs today. That applies across the board and it is not only a reflection on Government, it reflects just as uncomfortably on members of the Opposition.

In terms of the proposition before the House, it would have been better if the Government had decided to continue, as scheduled, not to sit than to come forward with this proposition and the methodology it has employed. We need only look at what we are facing — the issues that are presenting here. Yesterday the Tánaiste and the Minister for Education and Skills announced curtailments in library services to schools in disadvantaged communities. We cannot get responses from specific Ministers. The Minister for Transport sitting beside the Tánaiste is not responding to parliamentary questions — I am sure this is not only my experience — on roads and public transport.

[580]Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The Minister for Health and Children does not take a serious interest in her portfolio responsibility and kicks everything to the HSE under health. It is now some four months later and we have not got responses to questions. That is a disgrace. Only two hours are being provided to deal with the Ryan report——

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    Hear, hear.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    ——against the backdrop of all we have highlighted here in recent weeks, namely, the State’s failure to address the needs of children in State care, it having a disgraceful record and one that needs to be addressed substantively on the floor of this Dáil.

A chairde, this is a shameful proposition. It is one that not only the Opposition should reject this morning, the House should reject it. Accordingly, I ask that we unanimously say this is not worth what is being proposed; either the Government should come forward with a real schedule of work for the coming week or forget it.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    On the point of order, the Ceann Comhairle responded that he believes the House can vary the Order of Business for next week. I respectfully suggest to him that I do not see how it can do that, if there is no Order of Business at which the business of the House can be discussed

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    Second, if there is no provision for the taking of a division or vote next week, that means that the House will be deprived of making a decision. I submit that this proposal is not constitutional. I suggest that at a minimum the Ceann Comhairle should adjourn the House to take some advice on it and to perhaps consult either party leaders or party Whips on the proposal.

I draw the Ceann Comhairle’s attention to the fact that Deputy Stagg had proposed seven amendments to this motion from the Government this morning but it will not be possible to deal with those seven amendments individually because the Government proposes that the motion be taken as one question and be put without debate, which will deprive us of the opportunity of dealing with it.

I recommend that the Ceann Comhairle adjourn the House and take some advice on this. I submit to him, on behalf of the Labour Party, that the Government proposal before the House is not constitutional.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The position is that the House can vary the order next week by agreement of the House.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    How can that be done?

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Members of the House are the masters of their own destiny in this matter. That is the decision. We are moving on.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    We are a Parliament. We are elected here. We have rights and we will not be steamrolled.

Deputy Joan Burton:    The Ceann Comhairle is supposed to uphold those rights.

  [581]11 o’clock

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    The Ceann Comhairle has said that the House can vary the order next week and that the House is the master of its own destiny. This motion removes the House’s mastery of its own destiny and its discretion. There is no means under the motion the Government is proposing whereby the House can change the order. The motion sets down the business for next week without any provision or opportunity for that business to be varied. There will be no Order of Business, no votes and no Private Members’ time. It is removing from the House from next week the discretion the House would have in a normal week’s business. I put it to the Ceann Comhairle again that this is not constitutional and I ask him to protect the rights of the Members of this House by, at a minimum, adjourning the House and taking some advice on what I have put to him.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We have long established precedents on this general area.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    We do not have precedents for this.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The order of the House can be varied; it has happened in the past. I call the Tánaiste.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    On a point of order, a Cheann Comhairle, at what time next week will provision be made for the order to be changed?

An Ceann Comhairle:    That is a matter for the House to decide.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    If we submit a changed order on Wednesday, will the Ceann Comhairle provide an opportunity for that to be debated and decided? Will the Ceann Comhairle allow a challenge to next week’s order to ensure the Dáil can decide whether it wants to proceed?

Deputy Dermot Ahern:    We are having that now.

Deputy Joan Burton:    No, we are not.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    Will the Ceann Comhairle allow that next week?

An Ceann Comhairle:    We must have order in the House.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    We need to know that.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The proposal for the order and the variation of it naturally comes from the Government side of the House.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    At what point will that be decided next week?

Deputy Richard Bruton:    So the Ceann Comhairle will not permit any order to be put.

An Ceann Comhairle:    There is a precedent where if a proposal is brought forward to vary the order of the House——

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    On a point of order, for the purposes of clarity, I put it to the Ceann Comhairle that next week he will continue to preside over this sham by advising the House that the matter was settled last Thursday.

[582]An Ceann Comhairle:    We are not going to have a debate on this. I have ruled on it at this stage.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    It is improper for the Chair to bow to the Government on this issue.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will withdraw that remark. I am not bowing to Government pressure on this matter.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    But the Chair is misleading the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Flanagan will withdraw that remark or leave the House.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will withdraw that remark or leave the House. I am giving the Deputy an opportunity to withdraw that allegation.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    I will withdraw the remark on the basis that the Ceann Comhairle will advise me as to the circumstances in which he will allow for normal business to take place next week.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I am making the ruling on the basis of a long established precedent in the House——

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    With respect, I ask the Ceann Comhairle to cite the precedent for the benefit of Members of this House.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We will discuss it——

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    I ask the Ceann Comhairle to cite it.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Shatter.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    On a point of order, in regard to the advice the Ceann Comhairle gave to the House just now, and earlier——

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    Just before you came in.

Deputy James Reilly:    At least he knows how to use modern technology.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    I was watching the Members opposite making fools of themselves——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Shatter, address your remarks to the Chair, please.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    ——undermining the power of this House on the television screens.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Shatter, will you address your remarks to the Chair, please.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    I am surprised to see the Deputy here on a Thursday.

Deputy Shane McEntee:    At least he was working.

[583]Deputy Alan Shatter:    In regard to the Ceann Comhairle’s advice to the House, that the House can vary this order next week, I point out that if there is a proposal to the House next week to vary the order, based on the order we are accepting today, a vote on that proposal would be postponed until the following week. If we waited to the following week to vote on it we then have to, by way of political groundhog day, turn back the week we missed.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    Dr. Who.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    I understand the Ceann Comhairle is trying to guide the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Yes.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    If I may explain to the Ceann Comhairle, what he stated to the House is completely unworkable by virtue of the order now being adopted. Any change proposed to this order next week, or any vote on it, will be transferred to the following week. It is the intention of the Government to castrate the powers of this House and render every Member on this side politically impotent.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, you have gone long past the point of order. I advise the Deputy the House has it within its power to order a vote on the variation next week.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Alan Shatter:    No, because this order is postponing a vote.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Stagg.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    A Cheann Comhairle, you are wrong——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, resume your seat, please.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    No wonder Dr. Paisley left.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his ruling that the House can vary the order next week.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Yes.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    It is all very funny for the Tánaiste and the Minister forTransport.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    I ask him to clarify that, so that there will be no doubt about it. Next Wednesday when the Dáil meets, I intend to propose that there be an Order of Business, Questions to the Taoiseach and votes taken on any issue where there is a division. Is the Ceann Comhairle now telling me and the House that will be in order and be voted on? If that is not the case——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Stagg, if you were a member of the Government making the proposal, representing the Government’s point of view, you would be in order in doing so.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    A Cheann Comhairle, they will not be here.

Deputy Joan Burton:    They will be on their holidays.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Resume your seat. I call the Tánaiste.

[584](Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputies, resume your seats, please.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    When I made that suggestion I was told to withdraw the remark. In effect, the Ceann Comhairle is——

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call the Tánaiste.

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste:    A Cheann Comhairle——

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputies, please. Deputy Michael D. Higgins, I have called the Tánaiste.

The Tánaiste:    A Cheann Comhairle, molaim an rún.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Tá go maith. I am putting the proposal.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    The question is, “That the proposal for dealing with Nos. 10b and 10c, Electricity Regulation (Amendment) (Carbon Revenue Levy) Bill 2010; financial resolution; and motion re sittings and business of the Dáil without debate be agreed to”.

Question put: “That the proposal for dealing with No. 10b and No. 10c, without debate, be agreed to.”

The Dáil divided: Tá, 78; Níl, 72.

Tá
Ahern, Bertie.	Ahern, Dermot.
Ahern, Michael.	Ahern, Noel.
Andrews, Barry.	Andrews, Chris.
Aylward, Bobby.	Blaney, Niall.
Brady, Áine.	Brady, Cyprian.
Brady, Johnny.	Browne, John.
Byrne, Thomas.	Calleary, Dara.
Carey, Pat.	Collins, Niall.
Conlon, Margaret.	Connick, Seán.
Coughlan, Mary.	Cowen, Brian.
Cregan, John.	Cuffe, Ciarán.
Curran, John.	Dempsey, Noel.
Dooley, Timmy.	Fahey, Frank.
Finneran, Michael.	Fitzpatrick, Michael.
Fleming, Seán.	Flynn, Beverley.
Gogarty, Paul.	Gormley, John.
Hanafin, Mary.	Harney, Mary.
Haughey, Seán.	Healy-Rae, Jackie.
Hoctor, Máire.	Kelleher, Billy.
Kelly, Peter.	Kenneally, Brendan.
Kennedy, Michael.	Killeen, Tony.
Kitt, Michael P.	Kitt, Tom.
Lenihan, Conor.	Lowry, Michael.
McEllistrim, Thomas.	McGrath, Mattie.
McGrath, Michael.	McGuinness, John.
Mansergh, Martin.	Martin, Micheál.
Moloney, John.	Moynihan, Michael.
Mulcahy, Michael.	Nolan, M.J.
Ó Cuív, Éamon.	Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
O’Brien, Darragh.	O’Connor, Charlie.
O’Dea, Willie.	O’Donoghue, John.
O’Flynn, Noel.	O’Hanlon, Rory.
O’Keeffe, Batt.	O’Keeffe, Edward.
O’Rourke, Mary.	O’Sullivan, Christy.
Power, Peter.	Power, Seán.
Roche, Dick.	Ryan, Eamon.
Sargent, Trevor.	Scanlon, Eamon.
Smith, Brendan.	Treacy, Noel.
Wallace, Mary.	White, Mary Alexandra.

Níl
Allen, Bernard.	Barrett, Seán.
Behan, Joe.	Breen, Pat.
Broughan, Thomas P.	Bruton, Richard.
Burke, Ulick.	Burton, Joan.
Byrne, Catherine.	Connaughton, Paul.
Coonan, Noel J.	Costello, Joe.
Coveney, Simon.	Crawford, Seymour.
Creed, Michael.	Creighton, Lucinda.
D’Arcy, Michael.	Deasy, John.
Deenihan, Jimmy.	Doyle, Andrew.
Durkan, Bernard J.	English, Damien.
Enright, Olwyn.	Feighan, Frank.
Ferris, Martin.	Flanagan, Charles.
Flanagan, Terence.	Gilmore, Eamon.
Hayes, Brian.	Higgins, Michael D.
Howlin, Brendan.	Kehoe, Paul.
Kenny, Enda.	Lynch, Kathleen.
McCormack, Pádraic.	McEntee, Shane.
McGinley, Dinny.	McGrath, Finian.
McHugh, Joe.	McManus, Liz.
Mitchell, Olivia.	Morgan, Arthur.
Naughten, Denis.	Neville, Dan.
Noonan, Michael.	Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.	O’Donnell, Kieran.
O’Dowd, Fergus.	O’Keeffe, Jim.
O’Mahony, John.	O’Shea, Brian.
O’Sullivan, Jan.	O’Sullivan, Maureen.
Penrose, Willie.	Perry, John.
Quinn, Ruairí.	Rabbitte, Pat.
Reilly, James.	Ring, Michael.
Shatter, Alan.	Sheahan, Tom.
Sheehan, P.J..	Sherlock, Seán.
Shortall, Róisín.	Stagg, Emmet.
Stanton, David.	Timmins, Billy.
Tuffy, Joanna.	Upton, Mary.
Varadkar, Leo.	Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies John Curran and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    How could that be changed next week?

Deputy Richard Bruton:    The Taoiseach should hang on, there might be another vote.

[586]An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the proposal that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 9 June 2010 agreed to?

Deputy Enda Kenny:    No. The Taoiseach should come back.

Deputy Shane McEntee:    Perhaps he should bring his party with him when he leaves.

Deputy Damien English:    Let them go fully.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    The Taoiseach is heading the wrong way.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    It is not appropriate for the Taoiseach of the country to walk out of the Dáil when his Government——

Deputy Joan Burton:    He is off to speak to Senator Ivor Callely.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——proposed that this House should come back for a day and half next week. It is a sham, charade, whitewash and abdication of responsibility. There will be no Question Time, Leaders’ Questions, Adjournments or votes of any kind.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    Last September, the Fine Gael Whip agreed to no sitting at all for next week.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Kenny, without interruption.

Deputy Dermot Ahern:    That is right. He was happy enough not to have a sitting when they agreed the calendar last September.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    It might be fine for the Ministers.

Deputy Dermot Ahern:    This is an hypocrisy.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    It might be fine for them to smirk away over there but when the people of this country were in the middle of a winter freeze, the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, was in Malta and said he would stay there.

Deputy Frank Feighan:    Hear, hear.

Deputy Michael Ring:    Hear, hear.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    That is the truth. Where was the Deputy?

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I will tell you where I was.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Kenny.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I was with my people——

Deputy Michael Ring:    He was in Castlebar.

Deputy Billy Kelleher:    Deputy Ring is everywhere.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——in Castlebar, County Mayo.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Kenny should address his remarks through the Chair.

[587]Deputy Dermot Ahern:    He was keeping an eye on Ring.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    If this Government thinks it can come here with this level of arrogance and contempt for the people, the Parliament and the Dáil and the issues we have to discuss, it has another thing coming. As Chairman of this assembly, the Ceann Comhairle must understand that if the Order of Business as proposed for next week is not changed, there will be very little business conducted in this House.

We are awaiting publication of two serious bank reports and this country is in hock to what was allowed to happen with regulations not being implemented or supervised by the Government. There is an ongoing issue on the high seas, where a humanitarian ship headed for Gaza may well be intercepted with serious consequences involving Irish citizens. The Government wants the House to return but there is no mention of any accountability or a right to ask questions. Regarding the HSE, children in care are vulnerable and cannot speak about it.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Hear, hear.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    The VHI is up for sale——

Deputy Frank Feighan:    What about Quinn Insurance?

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——without European authorisation. There is a series of issues, not to mention the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill of the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, and the would be Minister, Deputy Mattie McGrath. Other issues are to be put to the House, including the children’s referendum——

An Ceann Comhairle:    This is not a catch-up occasion.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——and all of the other issues that need to be discussed.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Please, could we have some co-operation from the Deputy?

Deputy Enda Kenny:    If the Fianna Fáil Party believes it can continue to act in this way,——

Deputy Frank Feighan:    Call an election.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——it has reached a breathtaking level of arrogance in the way it treats this Parliament.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    It reverts to what the previous Taoiseach stated.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We are still on the Order of Business.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    He stated that Fianna Fáil’s ethics were to get into and stay in government.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    We are stuck here.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    The Government does not want to answer questions.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We are on the Order of Business.

[588]Deputy Enda Kenny:    It does not want to deal with issues of accountability. It wants to walk away——

Deputy Michael Finneran:    More outrage.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——and give two fingers to the people, the Parliament and the questions that need to be answered. The Government would lose nothing by having a normal day’s business next week with Leaders’ Questions, questions to the Taoiseach, Adjournment debates, Private Members’ motions and being able to vote on issues. I ask the Government not to treat next Wednesday and Thursday as some kind of Friday sitting during which anodyne statements are made. This is a serious time in our country’s development.

Deputy Micheál Martin:    It is about legislation.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    It is a serious time for the more than 400,000 people on the live register. It is a serious time for those in negative equity. It is a serious time for a generation of young people staring emigration in the face. The Government refuses to have anything to do with serious politics in terms of answering questions and being accountable.

We agree on the importance of the Ryan commission, but the Tánaiste, as the Deputy Head of Government, has nothing to lose by having a normal day’s business in the Dáil, which would involve the commencement, Leaders’ Questions, ordinary questions, Adjournment debates, motions and votes.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy has had ample opportunity to make his point. Will he give way to Deputy Gilmore?

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I do not know what the Government has to hide or of what it is afraid. When I get the nation through the door——

(Interruptions).

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I see the appeal from the party that says——

An Ceann Comhairle:    If Deputy Kenny does not desist——

Deputy Enda Kenny:    ——it is always eager to add to the party’s archives realising that what it does now will matter for generations to come. Well, it does matter and it matters now.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Will Deputy Kenny resume his seat?

(Interruptions).

Deputy Enda Kenny:    I charge the Tánaiste with abdication of responsibility and a clear reticence to have an ordinary day’s business.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    I will suspend the House if the Deputy does not resume his seat.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    Suspend the House. Suspend the whole thing.

Deputy Shane McEntee:    The Ceann Comhairle might as well close it down.

[589]Sitting suspended at 11.25 a.m. and resumed at 11.35 a.m.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We will resume on the Order of Business.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    A Cheann Comhairle, I would like to say the following. You adjourned the House for a ten minute period. I see no reason the Government should not have normal Dáil business next Wednesday and Thursday, and I have made that point vociferously. I find it regrettable that the Taoiseach walked out of the Chamber after the vote was taken. This is about his Government proposing that there be no effective accountability in the Chamber next Wednesday and Thursday, beyond the listed legislation, which is important in respect of the Ryan report statements. However, there should be normal accountability in the way we do business here.

I have made my point vociferously. I say to the Tánaiste directly that I see no reason the Government has chosen this attitude. Somebody on that side said “Let them hang”, so that we will have an anodyne day where Ministers do not need to attend and where Government Deputies will not be forced to vote, as the motion proposed by the Government does not allow for that.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    We saw the live register figures yesterday for the past month. There are 6,600 more people on the live register, meaning that there are about 440,000 people out of work. That does not include all those who have emigrated. Instead of having a normal week’s business next week, Ministers are going on holidays and presenting us with a day and half’s business in the House, beginning at 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday. When the Opposition party leaders object to that, as we have done this morning, the response of Ministers right across that front bench is to laugh. They are laughing at the people. Have they not done enough damage to the country without now laughing at the people and taking themselves off on holidays next week instead of coming in here for a normal week’s business?

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    When we finish the Order of Business the plane will be gone.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    A Cheann Comhairle, I regret that you put the earlier motion before we had satisfactorily concluded the issues I raised with you. You said that the House will be able to vary the Order of Business next week. I want you to tell us how we will do that. We will not have any Order of Business, any vote, or any Private Members’ business, so how are we going to change the Order of Business next week? I will want it changed next week and I am going to take you at your word.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The ruling is made on the basis of precedent that has been long established in the House.

Deputy Joan Burton:    No.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I have already ruled on it.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I do not care about that. It is the outcome——

Deputy Joan Burton:    You said we could change it.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The opportunity is there and we are not going to debate it now. The ruling was made on the basis of long-established precedent in the House.

[590]Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    That is fine. It is the outcome that concerns me. When I raised the issue and drew your attention to the Constitution and to what was in the motion, you told us that we would be able to vary the Order of Business for the House next week. I am going to keep you to that. You figure out how to do it, because we want the Order of Business varied for next week. We want a normal week’s business here next week, whereby we will be able to put questions, have votes on issues and do normal parliamentary business. It is the Ceann Comhairle’s problem now; he made the ruling but in doing so he told us we could vary the order next week and that the House was the master of its own destiny. He must figure out how we will do so.

Deputy Brendan Howlin:    It has to be tested.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I am putting it to the test.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    We all are.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    As far as this proposal to adjourn until 2.30 p.m. next Wednesday is concerned, the Labour Party opposes it. If we are going to have an anodyne week it might as well start on Tuesday as Wednesday.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    “The Members of the House are the masters of their own destiny” was the Ceann Comhairle’s phraseology yet after some questioning it became apparent that there is only one set of masters here and that is majority Government rule. The rest of us have no say. I fully concur with the previous speaker’s point that the Ceann Comhairle has placed on the record an opportunity to alter the proposed structure of the one and a half day sitting of next week and one of the areas that I certainly want to see changed by whatever means is the provision of two hours to address the implementation of the recommendations in the Ryan report. That is incredible; two hours to address a subject that we have been urging and demanding for several weeks on the first anniversary of the publication of that report. It is unacceptable that only two hours of debate are to be provided. All of the other issues aside, it is the single most important matter that is to be addressed and yet the opportunity is such that a great number of Deputies who will have important and useful contributions to make will not have that opportunity. It does not come anywhere close to what is required.

Humour is fine but there was nothing at all humorous in the Opposition’s efforts this morning to put forward salient arguments for why the proposed ordering of business next week was unacceptable. I do not believe that the 439,000 unemployed people and their dependent families will view any of this as humorous. It is nothing of the kind.

While we are told a whole range of things that will not happen next week, we are not told whether there will be a Cabinet meeting. I understand the Cabinet meets every week.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    There will be two.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    On what days will they take place?

Deputy Richard Bruton:    They will be here but they will not come in. They will be in their little foxholes.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    Will the Cabinet be meeting on Tuesday?

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    Yes.

[591]Deputy Michael Creed:    It is unforgivable that the Government will not come in.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    Why not be accountable?

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    In that case, what is the sense in ordering business to commence at 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday the week of a bank holiday? The bank holiday is on the Monday; it is not on the Tuesday or Wednesday morning. I have no doubt there are some honourable souls on the Government benches who would be willing, available and ready to present here as normal next Tuesday. If the Cabinet is to meet next week, will all the Ministers be in attendance? If so, let us put that to the test. Opposition voices are saying the Ministers will all be away on holidays. Present here at 2.30 p.m. next Tuesday, not on Wednesday, to commence a proper week’s business on the floor of the Dáil. That will be the litmus test. If the Cabinet is meeting, let Ministers be present here and not in a closed room in Government Buildings or wherever it meets——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Ó Caoláin let us remember we are on the Order of Business. It is 11.45 a.m. and we are still on the Order of Business.

Deputy Michael Creed:    We will have no Order of Business.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    Let us present on the floor of this House and let us have the opportunity to see exactly who is here and who is not here.

This further proposition not to resume business until 2.30 p.m. next Wednesday is unacceptable. The proposition should be that we meet at 2.30 p.m. next Tuesday and that is what Sinn Féin is proposing. That is our amendment to what is proposed. Surely the Government can have no objection if the Cabinet is already committed to meeting on that day.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    Some of them have gone already.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    That is what we need to decide. Will the Ceann Comhairle accept that amendment and put it to the House first? I move that we meet next Tuesday at 2.30 p.m. and allow the business of the House to continue as normal as any other week’s sitting.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I will put the question now.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The question is that——

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    On a point of orde——

An Ceann Comhairle:    ——the Dáil is rising today——

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    On a point of order——

Deputy Shane McEntee:    That is disgraceful

Deputy Michael Creed:    Railroading.

An Ceann Comhairle:    ——to adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 9 June 2010 be agreed to.

Question put.

[592]The Dáil divided: Tá, 77; Níl, 68.

Tá
Ahern, Bertie.	Ahern, Dermot.
Ahern, Michael.	Ahern, Noel.
Andrews, Barry.	Andrews, Chris.
Aylward, Bobby.	Blaney, Niall.
Brady, Áine.	Brady, Cyprian.
Brady, Johnny.	Browne, John.
Byrne, Thomas.	Calleary, Dara.
Carey, Pat.	Collins, Niall.
Conlon, Margaret.	Connick, Seán.
Coughlan, Mary.	Cregan, John.
Cuffe, Ciarán.	Curran, John.
Dempsey, Noel.	Dooley, Timmy.
Fahey, Frank.	Finneran, Michael.
Fitzpatrick, Michael.	Fleming, Seán.
Flynn, Beverley.	Gogarty, Paul.
Gormley, John.	Hanafin, Mary.
Harney, Mary.	Haughey, Seán.
Healy-Rae, Jackie.	Hoctor, Máire.
Kelleher, Billy.	Kelly, Peter.
Kenneally, Brendan.	Kennedy, Michael.
Killeen, Tony.	Kitt, Michael P.
Kitt, Tom.	Lenihan, Brian.
Lenihan, Conor.	Lowry, Michael.
Mansergh, Martin.	Martin, Micheál.
McEllistrim, Thomas.	McGrath, Mattie.
McGrath, Michael.	McGuinness, John.
Moloney, John.	Moynihan, Michael.
Mulcahy, Michael.	Nolan, M.J..
Ó Cuív, Éamon.	Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
O’Brien, Darragh.	O’Connor, Charlie.
O’Dea, Willie.	O’Donoghue, John.
O’Flynn, Noel.	O’Hanlon, Rory.
O’Keeffe, Batt.	O’Keeffe, Edward.
O’Rourke, Mary.	Power, Peter.
Power, Seán.	Roche, Dick.
Ryan, Eamon.	Sargent, Trevor
Scanlon, Eamon.	Smith, Brendan.
Treacy, Noel.	Wallace, Mary.
White, Mary Alexandra.

Níl
Barrett, Seán.	Behan, Joe.
Breen, Pat.	Broughan, Thomas P.
Bruton, Richard.	Burke, Ulick.
Burton, Joan.	Byrne, Catherine.
Connaughton, Paul.	Coonan, Noel J.
Costello, Joe.	Coveney, Simon.
Crawford, Seymour.	Creed, Michael.
Creighton, Lucinda.	D’Arcy, Michael.
Deasy, John.	Deenihan, Jimmy.
Doyle, Andrew.	Durkan, Bernard J.
Enright, Olwyn.	Feighan, Frank.
Ferris, Martin.	Flanagan, Charles.
Flanagan, Terence.	Gilmore, Eamon.
Hayes, Brian.	Higgins, Michael D.
Howlin, Brendan.	Kehoe, Paul.
Kenny, Enda.	Lynch, Kathleen.
McCormack, Pádraic.	McEntee, Shane.
McGinley, Dinny.	McGrath, Finian.
McHugh, Joe.	McManus, Liz.
Mitchell, Olivia.	Morgan, Arthur.
Naughten, Denis.	Neville, Dan.
Noonan, Michael.	Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.	O’Donnell, Kieran.
O’Dowd, Fergus.	O’Mahony, John.
O’Shea, Brian.	O’Sullivan, Jan.
O’Sullivan, Maureen.	Penrose, Willie.
Perry, John.	Quinn, Ruairí.
Rabbitte, Pat.	Reilly, James.
Ring, Michael.	Shatter, Alan.
Sheahan, Tom.	Sheehan, P.J.
Sherlock, Seán.	Shortall, Róisín.
Stagg, Emmet.	Stanton, David.
Timmins, Billy.	Tuffy, Joanna.
Upton, Mary.	Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies John Curran and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    I think it is unsatisfactory that the Government can come in here——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Flanagan, resume your seat.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    On a point of order, Ceann Comhairle in the course of earlier exchanges I withdrew remarks which were directed at the you, namely, that you were bowing to Government but you indicted that you were acting in accordance with precedent. I would have thought that you might have availed of the ten minute suspension to find the precedent and quote it to the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Flanagan, you will resume your seat and we are moving on.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    I have been tabling questions, as have Members of this House, to various Ministers——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Flanagan, will you resume your seat?

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    ——since last Christmas where there is a repeated refusal on the part of the Ministers to answer questions.

An Ceann Comhairle:    If you are dissatisfied with my decision, you have the option of tabling a motion. We are moving on.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    We are not moving on.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, you will resume your seat. We are moving on.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    I am not satisfied. I did not get to my point of order at all yet.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I have adjudicated on the matter and we are moving on. If you are not satisfied with the decision, bring forward a motion.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    I am asking you to deal with a point of order, which is my entitlement under Standing Orders. I will be brief. In the course of those exchanges, you indicated to me further, while neglecting to quote the precedent, that it is possible for this Dáil to vary or change the order. Since you made that statement, the Dáil has voted and decided to set [594]aside Standing Orders 21 and 26 in regard to next week’s business. I am asking you, Ceann Comhairle how, or by what means, can we, as Members of this House or as political groupings in this House, vary the order, in view of the fact that we have voted, under your stewardship, that the taking of any division should be postponed until next week? We have also discarded in its entirety the Order of Business for next week.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Flanagan, I told you I have ruled on the matter. We are moving on.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    No.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I told you the precedent was there for the variation.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    I think it is unsatisfactory that Government can come in here and railroad the business of the House in the manner in which it has.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, you will resume your seat. We are moving on.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    I have been tabling questions, as have Members of this House, to various Ministers since last Christmas, where there is a repeated refusal on the part of Ministers to answer questions.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, I have indicated to you that I have ruled on the matter and that is it. We are moving on.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    No, we are not.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Bruton on the Order of Business.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    You indicated to the House earlier, a Cheann Comhairle that, as I thought, only the Government could change the order next week. You then went on to say that the House is at its own disposal and we can make our decision. The truth is the House will assemble next week and the Government will not be here. It will be having its Cabinet meeting and will be absent.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, you know the Government of the day proposes and the House then disposes.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    They will have one Minister here. There will be no opportunity——

An Ceann Comhairle:    We are moving on.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    There will be no opportunity for the Dáil to deliberate on an Opposition motion as to whether the House should change its business. What you are doing is muzzling the Dáil. You did not hear Deputy Flanagan’s request for a question about the order when a vote was not yet taken.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, you know we are in a filibuster mood this morning on the Order of Business. I am not going to allow it.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    You closed down the opportunity for a Member to make a legitimate point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, resume your seat, please.

[595]Deputy Richard Bruton:    No, I want to complete my point first.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Resume your seat.

Deputy Seán Barrett:    It is not the Fianna Fáil Party’s decision to make.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    There was an indication that the Tánaiste was not going to accept the motion as we had offered it. Deputy Flanagan rose to make a point of order, as was his right, and you refused to recognise him. That was not fair procedure to this side of the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, you are a long-time Member of this House.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    Yes, and I am used——

An Ceann Comhairle:    You know the procedure.

Deputy Richard Bruton:    ——to the rights of all Members being respected by the Chair.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I wish to raise two matters, both of which are points of order. The first is that Members of this House are entitled to make a point of order. With respect, a Cheann Comhairle, you must take the point of order and hear it. I appreciate that there has been a bit of ruaille buaille in the course of the——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Points of order when there is disorder in the House are out of order.

A Deputy:  That is not disorder.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy can continue.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    The second point of order I am raising is that the motion which the Government has presented about next week’s business has not yet been voted on. There are some questions which I wish to put to you, in your capacity as Chair of the House and the holder of the office to protect our rights here as Members. In the course of the earlier exchanges, you told us that the House was master of its own destiny and that if the motion was passed we could still vary the Order of Business for next week.

I would like the Ceann Comhairle to tell us how we may do that.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    We all want to know.

  12 o’clock

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I want to vary the Order of Business for next week and I will be proposing to do so at 2.30 p.m. next Wednesday. If the motion we will shortly be voting on is passed and there is no Order of Business, I would like the Ceann Comhairle to tell me what opportunity I will have to propose that the Order of Business be varied. If there is no Standing Order 32, what opportunity will I have to ask that the business of the House be set aside to discuss another matter? If there is no Private Members’ business, how may I, as an Opposition Deputy, make a proposal on any matter?

Deputy Brian Hayes:    Or Adjournment debate.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    If there is no Adjournment motion, how will I get a response from a Minister to my questions? If there are no oral questions, how can I put a question to a Minister on matters of importance? In any event, how will the House decide on these issues if we do not have an opportunity to divide?

[596]I noted earlier there are provisions in the Constitution to deal with these matters. I put it to the Ceann Comhairle that he is required to rule on constitutional provisions as they apply directly to the House. When I asked him to rule on this, he cited precedent but assured the House that we would still be able to vary the business for next week. I want him to tell us how we may do so if the motion is passed.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy knows next week will be Government time. At all times, the Government proposes and the House disposes.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    That is not so.

An Ceann Comhairle:    That is the way it is.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    There is no proposal next week.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    It is not good practice.

An Ceann Comhairle:    It is on that basis that the ruling is made.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    It may surprise the Ceann Comhairle but we are not a one-party State.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We have a Whip system. We have a consultation process among the Whips and if the Government of the day——

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    Talk to the Whips.

An Ceann Comhairle:    ——whether today or whenever, brings in a proposal to vary the order——

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle:    We are moving on.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle:    I have ruled on the matter and we are moving on. I call Deputy Kehoe on a point of order.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    Did I mishear the Ceann Comhairle? He said there was consultation with the Whips. There was no consultation on this.

Deputy Billy Kelleher:    We spoke about this in September.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    We were told——

Deputy Billy Kelleher:    It was agreed last September.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn:    We are being steamrolled.

Deputy Brendan Howlin:    With the by-election.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Kehoe is not raising a point of order.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    It is a point of order.

[597]An Ceann Comhairle:    It is not a point of order. We are simply moving on.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    The Ceann Comhairle will move on when I am finished.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should make the point he wishes to make.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn:    We are being steamrolled on this.

Deputy Billy Kelleher:    It was agreed last September.

Deputy Shane McEntee:    Where is the by-election?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy McEntee, please.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    There was no consultation with the Whips on this matter. We were told yesterday evening what the business would be for next week. Our points of view were not even heard. If the Government had listened to us, we would not have this charade this morning because next week would be a proper sitting week.

Deputy Bobby Aylward:    Deputy Kehoe is the charade.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    What is happening this morning——

An Ceann Comhairle:    It is the normal procedure and the House proceeds on that basis.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    This is no normal procedure.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We are moving on. The Deputy has made his point.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    What is happening this morning is an absolute joke.

Deputy Edward O’Keeffe:    Put the question.

Deputy Michael Creed:    Is Deputy Edward O’Keeffe in a hurry home?

Deputy Edward O’Keeffe:    I have work to do.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I have raised——

Deputy Alan Shatter:    Perhaps we will have a contribution on green Dáil reform from Deputy Gogarty. We should give him a stage.

Deputy Paul Gogarty:    At least I do not wear Spocky ears.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Could we have silence for the Deputy in possession?

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I have put what I think are reasonable points of order to the Ceann Comhairle and I asked him to rule on them. I find his response quite interesting. I challenge his interpretation that the Government proposes and the House disposes. We are not a rubber stamp. Every Member of this House has rights, some of which allow us to make Private Members’ proposals.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn:    Even backbenchers.

[598]Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    We are normally allowed to ask questions and make Adjournment requests. The effect of the proposal before the House would be to stand down for the entirety of next week the rights of every Member of this House.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    That is not acceptable. The Ceann Comhairle spoke about precedent. That will fundamentally change the relationship between Government and Parliament. It is not the case, and I will oppose the assertion, that the way the Parliament works is through the Government proposing and the House disposing. We have rights here.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn:    This is not the House of Commons.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    We have rights as individual Members and as representatives of Opposition parties. It is the Ceann Comhairle’s responsibility to defend these rights and to be fair to every Member of this House. The proposed motion, which apparently must be taken without debate, will in effect stand down the rights of Deputies. It is the Ceann Comhairle’s job to defend our rights, ensure that every Member is treated fairly and prevent the Government from using its parliamentary majority to stand down the rights of the Members of this Parliament. It can use its majority and I will accept defeat where it proposes Bills or appropriate measures, but it is unconstitutional of the Government to use its parliamentary majority to stand down the rights of Members of this Parliament.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

An Ceann Comhairle:    For the benefit of the House, as Ceann Comhairle, I am the presiding Member whose role is neutral. I cannot act on behalf of one side of the House over the other.

Deputy Shane McEntee:    He did when there was a draw.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Standing Orders and rules of the House set down the relationship between Government and Opposition Members. That is a long-established precedent. We are moving on.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    On a point of order, the point I made earlier was simple and could have been of assistance to the Ceann Comhairle. The Government indeed proposes our business and we vote on it, but the Government does not, for example, own Standing Order 32. Requests under this Standing Order have only been granted two or three times but it enables Members in assembly to decide whether to respond to urgent matters requiring attention. No Government has the right to stand down the Standing Order that enables the Parliament in assembly to address a matter it regards as urgent. The Ceann Comhairle has been given lots of examples of what may be urgent next week.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Higgins——

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    There is no precedent.

An Ceann Comhairle:    ——is going to open up a debate.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    No, I am not.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We have a structure in this House for varying Standing Orders.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    I am aware of that.

[599]An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy’s party has Members who sit on that group.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    I respect the Ceann Comhairle’s judgment——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, please, we are moving on.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    There is no precedent that enables the Ceann Comhairle to allow the Government to quench the capacity of Standing Order 32.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    There is.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn:    This is not a Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party meeting.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    On a point of order, when did this happen before? I ask the Ceann Comhairle for the third time to quote the precedent.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We are not going to have a debate on that.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    These are not the dying days of the Weimar Republic.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We will not debate the issue now.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    This is an assembly of Members. Everybody here is elected to this House. The Government is suspending the business for next week.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Flanagan’s party has a representative on the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and they are quite willing to raise it at that level.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    This is not Weimar; it is the Irish Republic and the Ceann Comhairle is the Chair of this assembly.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Arising from the point made by Deputy Higgins, I foresaw that we would come to this juncture.

Deputy Michael Ring:    He was right.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Over the past six months, we were gradually coming to it. The Ceann Comhairle can do something about it, however. The Opposition believes the Government has put him in an invidious position because of the manner in which they are standing down the Order of Business for next week. In order to uphold his own independence, he has the right to tell the Government that it is placing him in a very difficult position.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Durkan——

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    This is particularly relevant given that he comes from a Government party.

An Ceann Comhairle:    ——is indulging in argument.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    I am not indulging.

An Ceann Comhairle:    He knows I do not have the right to do that.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    We have been systematically shut down over the past six months.

We have a wall of secrecy and silence.

[600]An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is spreading disorder in the House and I will not tolerate it.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    No, I am not. I call on the Ceann Comhairle to restore order.

An Ceann Comhairle:    If the Deputy does not resume his seat, I will ask him to leave the House.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    In that case, the Ceann Comhairle can ask the entire Opposition to leave the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Will the Deputy please resume his seat and allow the Order of Business to proceed?

Deputy Dermot Ahern:    We cannot get a word in edgewise with the antics of Deputy Durkan.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    This has gone on for long enough. It is totally unacceptable.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Will the Deputy resume his seat?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Is it the Ceann Comhairle’s intention to throw out all of us?

An Ceann Comhairle:    It is my intention to expel the Deputy if he does not resume his seat.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Will he expel all Deputies on this side of the House?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I ask the Deputy to resume his seat, please.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    Will the entire Opposition be expelled from the House?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Durkan will leave the House.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    This is a disgrace and it has gone on for too long. You, a Cheann Comhairle, should ensure the Opposition gets a fair deal.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is a suspended Member of the House.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell:    A division will be necessary next week.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    Deputy Durkan will be in the House all next week.

Deputy Bernard Durkan withdrew from the Chamber.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    I will try to help the Ceann Comhairle as he is in a spot. This problem would be solved if he were to inform the House how we will be able to order business next week.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We will move on. I call Deputy James Reilly on the Order of Business.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    On a point of order, will the Ceann Comhairle find out for Members of the House what it is about the content of the two reports into banking which disclose the level of Government incompetence in the matter that has rendered the Government scared to come into the House to answer questions and be accountable to the House?

An Ceann Comhairle:    That is not a point of order.

[601]Deputy Alan Shatter:    It is not a coincidence that the House is being muzzled in the week the Cabinet is considering these two reports. It is the week in which the reports are due to be made public and the Government wants to control the media in the manner in which they cover the reports.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Deputy Noel J. Coonan:    Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle will suspend Deputy Shatter as well.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn:    The Ceann Comhairle and I have been in this House for a long time.

Deputy Dermot Ahern:    The elder statesman speaks.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn:    Before taking up the post he currently occupies, Deputy Kirk was chairman of the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party. When he moved to his current position he took on new responsibilities, one of which was to uphold the constitutional integrity of this assembly. This is not a one party State and the Ceann Comhairle, on behalf of all Members of the House, could have said, when the Order of Business was proposed by the Government Chief Whip without the agreement of the Whips, that elements of it were unacceptable as they infringed the rights of Members.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I do not have such a right.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn:    You could have done so, Sir, and by refusing to exercise the authority that is implicit in your office, you have demonstrated that you are unashamedly partisan in favour of the Government side of the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Quinn knows I do not have such a right.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn:    This is not a slightly constitutional Republic, as some former members of the Fianna Fáil Party would have it.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We will move on to Second Stage of a Private Members’ Bill, the Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill 2010. I call on Deputy Pat Rabbitte to seek leave to introduce the Bill.

Deputy Joan Burton:    Am I not entitled to ask the Tánaiste questions on the Order of Business? In the context of the presence of the Minister for Finance, I ask the Tánaiste to indicate what are the arrangements for the publication and making available to Opposition spokespersons of the contents of the two reports on the banking inquiry. I was astonished, on opening the Irish Independent this morning, to find Mr. Fitzpatrick, who has featured in the affairs of the destruction of the economics of the country and Anglo Irish Bank, declaring on the front page that his day will come and that he will be able to speak freely and will be cleared of all wrongdoing. Has Mr. Fitzpatrick been given a copy of the reports which have not been given to the House and Opposition spokespersons?

An Ceann Comhairle:    This is not a mini Question Time. The Deputy is out of order.

Deputy Joan Burton:    I am not out of order. Three Ministers are speaking among themselves. I have been told by the Chairman of the Committee on Finance and the Public Service that Mr. Regling and Mr. Watson will come before the committee on Friday but I have no arrangement——

Deputy Brian Lenihan:    The date is Friday week.

[602]Deputy Joan Burton:    The Minister for Finance, whose presence I welcome, is obviously willing to speak.

An Ceann Comhairle:    There is no provision to have a debate on the matter on the Order of Business.

Deputy Joan Burton:    There is no indication from the Government——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy can raise the matter when the committee meets. She is completely out of order.

Deputy Joan Burton:    I am not out of order.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is showing serious disrespect to her colleagues.

Deputy Joan Burton:    It was a motion of the House that provided for the two scoping reports. The motion was submitted by the Government with an agreement that the House would be able to debate the reports. I am asking a question that is perfectly in order, namely, whether the Tánaiste will indicate when the two reports will be made available to me, as the Labour Party spokesperson on finance. The reports have been with the Government for three or four days.

I note from the front page of the Irish Independent this morning that one of the people who has been most closely involved in the destruction of this economy, Mr. Fitzpatrick, formerly of Anglo Irish Bank, has declared that he will have his day and will be found not guilty, as it were, of any wrongdoing.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    He will have his day in court.

Deputy Joan Burton:    Has Mr. Fitzpatrick been given a copy of the report? When will the report be made available to the Opposition?

An Ceann Comhairle:    We are endeavouring to obtain the information the Deputy seeks. I call the Tánaiste.

Deputy Joan Burton:    Will we receive the reports on Friday in the committee rooms?

The Tánaiste:    I, too, have rights in this House.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    The Government is denying the rest of us our rights.

The Tánaiste:    The position with the banking documents is that they will be considered by the Government on Tuesday and published thereafter. The committee will meet on Friday week to allow——

Deputy Richard Bruton:    This is, therefore, a case of news management.

The Tánaiste:    Members of the committee will have an opportunity to verse themselves in preparation for their discussions on Friday week.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    Will all Members of the House receive a copy of the report?

The Tánaiste:    Yes.

(Interruptions).

[603]Deputy Joan Burton:    The motion by the Government was through the House. The agreement was that this matter would come before the House. Will the Tánaiste comment on——-

An Ceann Comhairle:    This is not a mini Question Time. Deputy Burton has received a reply to her original query and should resume her seat.

Deputy Joan Burton:    Will the Government give us a copy of the reports?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Will the Deputy please resume her seat?

The Tánaiste:    The Government has not seen the reports.

Deputy Joan Burton:    What has it been doing with the reports since receiving them on Tuesday?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Burton must resume her seat.

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    When the National Asset Management Agency takes over various lands, will such lands qualify for payments under the REP scheme?

(Interruptions).

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    My question is not meant to be funny.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should table a parliamentary question.

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    I will do my best to help the Ceann Comhairle.

Deputy Charles Flanagan:    The Deputy will not be able to table a question next week.

Deputy Tom Sheahan:    Will NAMA draw REPS payments on the lands it acquires?

Deputy Arthur Morgan:    That is a trick question.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Enda Kenny.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    The Ceann Comhairle has ruled Members out of order on a number of occasions this morning. As he has now moved on to the Order of Business proper, I contend that he is out of order. Will I explain the reason?

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is holding up the House.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    The Order of Business states that in the case of No. 10c, relating to the sittings and business of the Dáil, the matter shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair. The Ceann Comhairle did not put the question to the House as to whether the arrangements and business for next week were agreed. In moving on to the Order of Business proper you, Sir, have exceeded your authority and are out of order.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I have not exceeded my authority.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    You are out of order, a Cheann Comhairle.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    We have not voted on the question.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    Does the Ceann Comhairle accept that he is out of order?

[604]An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy McCormack.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    When will the very important climate change Bill come before the Dáil? It is promised to take place before the summer recess and was promised on several occasions. Is it the Government’s plan to take it at all?

The Tánaiste:    The Minister is working on that legislation, but I am not in a position to say when it will be available.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    On a point of order, I wish to clarify the position on the Government motion. We have debated and voted on it being taken without debate. However, the motion still has to be put to the House.

The Tánaiste:    After the Order of Business.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    How can the Ceann Comhairle allow the Government to take seven specific separate amendments together as one question with the motion? How in the name of God could he have done that?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy please, we will get to it.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    The horse has bolted now.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Reilly.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    A Ceann Comhairle, did you rule——

An Ceann Comhairle:    We will be dealing with the matter later.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    A Ceann Comhairle, did you rule that we have to vote on the motion yet?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Yes.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    Can you be clear in your answer to us?

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    He missed it.

An Ceann Comhairle:    This is normal business in the House. I call Deputy Reilly.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    No it is not.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    It is not normal business of the House to have this type of procedural motion. Can you clarify that we will vote on the motion?

An Ceann Comhairle:    We will be taking it after we finish with the Order of Business.

Deputy Michael Creed:    It can be taken next Wednesday if you like.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn:    I move that it be taken next week.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We will be putting the question. I call Deputy Reilly.

Deputy James Reilly:    Today we learned that 60 beds are to be closed in the Mater Hospital. A few weeks ago 52 beds were closed in Beaumont Hospital. Surgical wards in Cavan are being shut down. I learned today of a woman in her mid-40s who was seen in the accident and [605]emergency unit of Beaumont Hospital. She has a very serious heart complaint that puts her at risk of a heart attack. She was there for two days and was told she needed to be admitted.

An Ceann Comhairle:    What legislation is relevant to that?

Deputy James Reilly:    She was sent home with a promise of an early appointment. She will not be seen until 13 August. This health service is broken.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy knows we are on the Order of Business.

Deputy James Reilly:    I am dealing with promised legislation, No. 63 eligibility for health and personal social services Bill. What is the point of having such a Bill on the Clár when it is very clear that people’s entitlements are not being met, that people’s health is not being looked after and that people are being put at risk needlessly?

An Ceann Comhairle:    We cannot have a debate here.

The Tánaiste:    There is no date for that legislation.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    The Tánaiste was recently in my constituency to open a library and she told the librarian and the community in that constituency that they should have no fear and that the jobs were in place next year. Given that——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, please.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    I have not spoken in the past two hours; I will have my say.

An Ceann Comhairle:    You will, subject to authority of the Chair. There are certain things that are allowed on the Order of Business.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    I have waited patiently to have my say.

An Ceann Comhairle:    This matter can be the subject of a parliamentary question.

Deputy Andrew Doyle:    When?

Deputy Brian Hayes:    Given that the Government will not allow me to ask questions to be answered next week and I will have no opportunity to table a motion on the Adjournment and no opportunity for priority questions, can the Tánaiste please explain why her Department is now sacking 40 librarians in some of the poorest schools in the country? How can she justify this given that two weeks ago she told librarians in my constituency that those jobs were safe?

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    She made a mistake.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should table a motion on the Adjournment.

Deputy Róisín Shortall:    I concur with the points made by Deputy Brian Hayes. The 30 most disadvantaged second level schools in the country have libraries with librarians. We know from the research that——

An Ceann Comhairle:    This is out of order on the Order of Business.

Deputy Róisín Shortall:    —— project has made an appreciable difference to tackling literacy problems.

[606]An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should submit a parliamentary question or an item for the Adjournment.

Deputy Róisín Shortall:    It is completely unacceptable that those librarians would now be sacked by the Government. It makes no sense whatever. It is a false economy. Is the Tánaiste prepared to give an undertaking to safeguard the jobs of those librarians who are making such a difference to the lives of hundreds of children in the most disadvantaged schools?

Deputy Andrew Doyle:    This was announced at 6 p.m. yesterday evening when it was too late to table parliamentary questions to the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills. There is also no opportunity next week for questions or for an Adjournment debate. The Tánaiste is hiding behind the excuse that there is no promised legislation in this matter. It should be dealt with. It is too late for any of us to raise this matter. Figures for two schools in my constituency show how the children are improving.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should submit a written parliamentary question.

Deputy Andrew Doyle:    However, it cannot be taken for two weeks after the job is done. This is not acceptable. I do not get up to cause trouble.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We must move on. I call Deputy Rabbitte on the First Stage of the Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill 2010.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack:    You cannot call that now after the Order of Business.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Rabbitte to move for leave to introduce the Bill.

Deputy Róisín Shortall:    It will be too late in two weeks’ time. The Minister for Finance is here now and can give an answer to the question.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Shortall.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    It is alleged that the Department of Finance is instructing the Department of Education and Skills that these people must be sacked.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I have called Deputy Rabbitte. I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    That is a legitimate question that should be answered in this House.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will resume his seat.

Deputy Brian Hayes:    The appropriate Minister is here and can give answers to those questions.

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Last Updated: 31/03/2011 18:16:49

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