Suspension of Member

Thursday, 18 November 2010

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 722 No. 3

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An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  I move: “That Deputy Alan Shatter be suspended from the service of the Dáil.”

Question put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 70; Níl, 61.

Information on Michael Ahern  Zoom on Michael Ahern  Ahern, Michael. Information on Noel Ahern  Zoom on Noel Ahern  Ahern, Noel.
Information on Barry Andrews  Zoom on Barry Andrews  Andrews, Barry. Information on Chris Andrews  Zoom on Chris Andrews  Andrews, Chris.
Information on Seán Ardagh  Zoom on Seán Ardagh  Ardagh, Seán. Information on Bobby Aylward  Zoom on Bobby Aylward  Aylward, Bobby.
Information on Niall Blaney  Zoom on Niall Blaney  Blaney, Niall. Information on Aine Brady  Zoom on Aine Brady  Brady, Áine.
Information on Cyprian Brady  Zoom on Cyprian Brady  Brady, Cyprian. Information on Johnny Brady  Zoom on Johnny Brady  Brady, Johnny.
Information on John Browne  Zoom on John Browne  Browne, John. Information on Dara Calleary  Zoom on Dara Calleary  Calleary, Dara.
Information on Pat Carey  Zoom on Pat Carey  Carey, Pat. Information on Niall Collins  Zoom on Niall Collins  Collins, Niall.
Information on Margaret Conlon  Zoom on Margaret Conlon  Conlon, Margaret. Information on Sean Connick  Zoom on Sean Connick  Connick, Seán.
Information on Mary Coughlan  Zoom on Mary Coughlan  Coughlan, Mary. Information on John Cregan  Zoom on John Cregan  Cregan, John.
Information on Ciaran Cuffe  Zoom on Ciaran Cuffe  Cuffe, Ciarán. Information on John Curran  Zoom on John Curran  Curran, John.
Information on Noel Dempsey  Zoom on Noel Dempsey  Dempsey, Noel. Information on Jimmy Devins  Zoom on Jimmy Devins  Devins, Jimmy.
Information on Tim Dooley  Zoom on Tim Dooley  Dooley, Timmy. Information on Frank Fahey  Zoom on Frank Fahey  Fahey, Frank.
Information on Michael Finneran  Zoom on Michael Finneran  Finneran, Michael. Information on Beverley Cooper-Flynn  Zoom on Beverley Cooper-Flynn  Flynn, Beverley.
Information on Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Zoom on Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Gogarty, Paul. Information on John Gormley  Zoom on John Gormley  Gormley, John.
Information on Mary Hanafin  Zoom on Mary Hanafin  Hanafin, Mary. Information on Mary Harney  Zoom on Mary Harney  Harney, Mary.
Information on Seán Haughey  Zoom on Seán Haughey  Haughey, Seán. Information on Jackie Healy-Rae  Zoom on Jackie Healy-Rae  Healy-Rae, Jackie.
Information on Máire Hoctor  Zoom on Máire Hoctor  Hoctor, Máire. Information on Billy Kelleher  Zoom on Billy Kelleher  Kelleher, Billy.
Information on Peter Kelly  Zoom on Peter Kelly  Kelly, Peter. Information on Brendan Kenneally  Zoom on Brendan Kenneally  Kenneally, Brendan.
Information on Michael Kennedy  Zoom on Michael Kennedy  Kennedy, Michael. Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  Killeen, Tony.
Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Kitt, Michael P. Information on Tom Kitt  Zoom on Tom Kitt  Kitt, Tom.
Information on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Zoom on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Lenihan, Brian. Information on Conor Lenihan  Zoom on Conor Lenihan  Lenihan, Conor.
Information on Tom McEllistrim  Zoom on Tom McEllistrim  McEllistrim, Thomas. Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  McGrath, Mattie.
Information on Michael McGrath  Zoom on Michael McGrath  McGrath, Michael. Information on Dr Martin Mansergh  Zoom on Dr Martin Mansergh  Mansergh, Martin.
Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  Martin, Micheál. Information on John Moloney  Zoom on John Moloney  Moloney, John.
Information on Michael Moynihan  Zoom on Michael Moynihan  Moynihan, Michael. Information on M. J. Nolan  Zoom on M. J. Nolan  Nolan, M.J.
Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  Ó Cuív, Éamon. Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
Information on Darragh O'Brien  Zoom on Darragh O'Brien  O’Brien, Darragh. Information on Charlie O'Connor  Zoom on Charlie O'Connor  O’Connor, Charlie.
Information on Willie O'Dea  Zoom on Willie O'Dea  O’Dea, Willie. Information on John O'Donoghue  Zoom on John O'Donoghue  O’Donoghue, John.
Information on Noel O'Flynn  Zoom on Noel O'Flynn  O’Flynn, Noel. Information on Rory O'Hanlon  Zoom on Rory O'Hanlon  O’Hanlon, Rory.
Information on Batt O'Keeffe  Zoom on Batt O'Keeffe  O’Keeffe, Batt. Information on Christy O'Sullivan  Zoom on Christy O'Sullivan  O’Sullivan, Christy.
Information on Peter Power  Zoom on Peter Power  Power, Peter. Information on Seán Power  Zoom on Seán Power  Power, Seán.
Information on Dick Roche  Zoom on Dick Roche  Roche, Dick. Information on Eamon Ryan  Zoom on Eamon Ryan  Ryan, Eamon.
Information on Trevor Sargent  Zoom on Trevor Sargent  Sargent, Trevor. Information on Eamon Scanlon  Zoom on Eamon Scanlon  Scanlon, Eamon.
Information on Brendan Smith  Zoom on Brendan Smith  Smith, Brendan. Information on Noel Treacy  Zoom on Noel Treacy  Treacy, Noel.
Information on Mary Wallace  Zoom on Mary Wallace  Wallace, Mary. Information on Mary Alexandra White  Zoom on Mary Alexandra White  White, Mary Alexandra.



Níl
Information on James Bannon  Zoom on James Bannon  Bannon, James. Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Barrett, Seán.
Information on Joe Behan  Zoom on Joe Behan  Behan, Joe. Information on Pat Breen  Zoom on Pat Breen  Breen, Pat.
Information on Thomas P. Broughan  Zoom on Thomas P. Broughan  Broughan, Thomas P. Information on Ulick Burke  Zoom on Ulick Burke  Burke, Ulick.
Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Burton, Joan. Information on Catherine Byrne  Zoom on Catherine Byrne  Byrne, Catherine.
Information on Joe Carey  Zoom on Joe Carey  Carey, Joe. Information on Deirdre Clune  Zoom on Deirdre Clune  Clune, Deirdre.
Information on Paul Connaughton  Zoom on Paul Connaughton  Connaughton, Paul. Information on Noel Coonan  Zoom on Noel Coonan  Coonan, Noel J.
Information on Joe Costello  Zoom on Joe Costello  Costello, Joe. Information on Simon Coveney  Zoom on Simon Coveney  Coveney, Simon.
Information on Michael D'Arcy  Zoom on Michael D'Arcy  D’Arcy, Michael. Information on Jimmy Deenihan  Zoom on Jimmy Deenihan  Deenihan, Jimmy.
Information on Andrew Doyle  Zoom on Andrew Doyle  Doyle, Andrew. Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  Durkan, Bernard J.
Information on Olwyn Enright  Zoom on Olwyn Enright  Enright, Olwyn. Information on Frank Feighan  Zoom on Frank Feighan  Feighan, Frank.
Information on Martin Ferris  Zoom on Martin Ferris  Ferris, Martin. Information on Charles Flanagan  Zoom on Charles Flanagan  Flanagan, Charles.
Information on Terence Flanagan  Zoom on Terence Flanagan  Flanagan, Terence. Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Gilmore, Eamon.
Information on Tom Hayes  Zoom on Tom Hayes  Hayes, Tom. Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Higgins, Michael D.
Information on Philip Hogan  Zoom on Philip Hogan  Hogan, Phil. Information on Brendan Howlin  Zoom on Brendan Howlin  Howlin, Brendan.
Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  Kenny, Enda. Information on Ciaran Lynch  Zoom on Ciaran Lynch  Lynch, Ciarán.
Information on Pádraic McCormack  Zoom on Pádraic McCormack  McCormack, Pádraic. Information on Shane McEntee  Zoom on Shane McEntee  McEntee, Shane.
Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  McGrath, Finian. Information on Liz McManus  Zoom on Liz McManus  McManus, Liz.
Information on Arthur Morgan  Zoom on Arthur Morgan  Morgan, Arthur. Information on Denis Naughten  Zoom on Denis Naughten  Naughten, Denis.
Information on Dan Neville  Zoom on Dan Neville  Neville, Dan. Information on Michael Noonan  Zoom on Michael Noonan  Noonan, Michael.
Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín. Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
Information on Kieran O'Donnell  Zoom on Kieran O'Donnell  O’Donnell, Kieran. Information on Fergus O'Dowd  Zoom on Fergus O'Dowd  O’Dowd, Fergus.
Information on Jim O'Keeffe  Zoom on Jim O'Keeffe  O’Keeffe, Jim. Information on John O'Mahony  Zoom on John O'Mahony  O’Mahony, John.
Information on Brian O'Shea  Zoom on Brian O'Shea  O’Shea, Brian. Information on Jan O'Sullivan  Zoom on Jan O'Sullivan  O’Sullivan, Jan.
Information on Maureen O'Sullivan  Zoom on Maureen O'Sullivan  O’Sullivan, Maureen. Information on Ruairí Quinn  Zoom on Ruairí Quinn  Quinn, Ruairí.
Information on Pat Rabbitte  Zoom on Pat Rabbitte  Rabbitte, Pat. Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  Reilly, James.
Information on Michael Ring  Zoom on Michael Ring  Ring, Michael. Information on Alan Shatter  Zoom on Alan Shatter  Shatter, Alan.
Information on Tom Sheahan  Zoom on Tom Sheahan  Sheahan, Tom. Information on P. J. Sheehan  Zoom on P. J. Sheehan  Sheehan, P.J.
Information on Sean Sherlock  Zoom on Sean Sherlock  Sherlock, Seán. Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  Stagg, Emmet.
Information on David Stanton  Zoom on David Stanton  Stanton, David. Information on Billy Timmins  Zoom on Billy Timmins  Timmins, Billy.
Information on Joanna Tuffy  Zoom on Joanna Tuffy  Tuffy, Joanna. Information on Mary Upton  Zoom on Mary Upton  Upton, Mary.
Information on Jack Wall  Zoom on Jack Wall  Wall, Jack.  

Tellers: Tá, Deputies John Cregan and John Curran;; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Joe Carey.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Shatter withdrew from the Chamber.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  I call Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  I will try to remain in order. I was in the process of explaining to the House the reason the Fine Gael Party opposes the Order of Business and was pointing out that the there should be, at least, a day-long debate in this House today on crisis that has now erupted.

I would like to make a couple of comments and to ask two questions of the Tánaiste. This Government should resign in disgrace——

Deputy James Reilly: Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  Hear, hear.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  ——at the humiliation inflicted on the Irish people today, 18 November 2010. Whatever else happens I want the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance to understand that I regard the 12.5% corporation tax rate as sacrosanct, as enshrined on behalf of the Irish people in the Lisbon treaty. Any change to this tax would represent a massive breach of trust to foreign direct investment in this country.

[483]The Governor of the Central Bank spoke the truth today, something no Government Member has yet done. He stated that when the visitors from abroad arrive here they will discuss, negotiate and direct the drawing down of tens of billions of euro to deal with the catastrophic failure of the banking strategy pursued by the Government. I understand that the projections for 2012, based on the current rate of progress, are that the debt to GDP ratio will be 105% and debt to GNP will be 135%——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Deputy Kenny is getting into detail. I have allowed him some latitude.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  ——which is the position in Greece at present. Pouring billions more euro into the current banking structure will not work. Perhaps the Tánaiste will state what the Government proposes to do to get State banks off the backs of the Irish people at no cost. If that is the problem, what does the Government propose to do about it? There is no point in engaging in negotiations and in drawing down billions of euro if it makes the situation even worse.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  The Deputy is asking questions that can be posed during the questions and answers session.

Deputy Seán Barrett: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  I suppose he could raise the matter on the Adjournment Debate.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  I will finish on this point.

Deputy Seán Barrett: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  This is joke.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  The personnel travelling here today from the European Central Bank, European Commission and International Monetary Fund——

Deputy Brian Lenihan: Information on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Zoom on Brian Joseph Lenihan  They arrived yesterday.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  Did the Minister say that they arrived yesterday?

Deputy Brian Lenihan: Information on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Zoom on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Some of them did.

Deputy James Reilly: Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  More will arrive today.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  I ask Members to concentrate on the Order of Business.

Deputy James Reilly: Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  More semantics.

Deputy Paul Connaughton: Information on Paul Connaughton  Zoom on Paul Connaughton  The Minister said they were not coming at all.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Let us concentrate on the Order of Business. I call Deputy Kenny to continue.

Deputy Shane McEntee: Information on Shane McEntee  Zoom on Shane McEntee  It is a pity the Minister for Finance did not tell that to the Taoiseach.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  I hope the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, recognises this is not fiction but fact.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  I ask Deputy Kenny to make his remarks through the Chair.

[484]Deputy Noel Dempsey: Information on Noel Dempsey  Zoom on Noel Dempsey  Deputy Kenny continually quotes me as saying things I never said.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  Deputy Dempsey and Deputy Dermot Ahern remarked that they knew nothing about what is going on.

Deputy James Reilly: Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  The Deputies know nothing about it.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  They have never heard about this, it is all fiction.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Deputy Kenny, please.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  The personnel who arrived here yesterday and those who will arrive today——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Deputy Kenny, we cannot get into this now. I told the Deputy earlier that we are not getting into this matter now. The Deputy can make these points later.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  The personnel who arrived here yesterday to do their duty can return to Europe without having given a direction to the Irish Government provided it goes to the country and involves the people in the decisions to be made about our nation’s future.

Deputy Shane McEntee: Information on Shane McEntee  Zoom on Shane McEntee  Hear, hear.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  If I were asked to decide between the creditworthiness of the Irish State and its people and the creditworthiness of the banks I would stand by the State and the people. This Government should resign.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  I ask Deputy Kenny for his co-operation.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  The Government should go to the country. The personnel who arrived here will go back to Europe and we will buy time, credibility and belief and will sort out this mess. Ireland has a future, but not under a Fianna Fáil-led Government.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

  11 o’clock

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  I oppose the proposal in regard to the arrangements for No. a17 and do so for the following reasons. First, the item is entitled “Statements on Banking”. Statements on Banking is not an adequate proposal to deal with the issues which must now be discussed in this House. It is not possible to separate the issue of banking from the wider issue of the State’s finances and the general economic situation. As I understand it, the meeting of the eurozone Ministers and ECOFIN, which the Minister for Finance attended, dealt with a wider range of matters than banking. I will return to this point later.

Second, only 95 minutes has been provided for Statements on Banking. This is not an adequate proposal in circumstances where this country is being humiliated by the manner in which the Government has been dealing with the financial situation and international institutions.

Third, these arrangements are not adequate because of the information that has been provided to the public this morning by the Governor of the Central Bank — information that the Taoiseach pointedly refused to provide to the House yesterday.

[485]Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  The Governor told the Irish people this morning that what is under discussion with the IMF, the ECB and the European Commission is a multi-billion euro loan for Ireland.

Deputy Denis Naughten: Information on Denis Naughten  Zoom on Denis Naughten  A bailout.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  When I asked the Taoiseach yesterday about what the objectives of the talks were and what was being discussed——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  We will have statements and a question and answer session later and all these points can be made at that stage.

Deputy James Reilly: Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  In 95 minutes? I doubt it.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  They are relevant to the Order of Business. This is not a statement.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  No, they cannot and the reason they cannot be made is that the Government’s proposal is for statements on banking. I am explaining to the Chair that that is not an adequate proposal to deal with the matters which must now be discussed. The Governor of the Central Bank has widened that debate in his statement this morning.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  We are dealing with the proposal for the Order of Business and the Deputy is attempting to broaden the debate.

Deputies:  No, he is not.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  We cannot have Second Stage contributions on this matter and expand this matter on the Order of Business.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn: Information on Ruairí Quinn  Zoom on Ruairí Quinn  The Ceann Comhairle is wrong.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  I am entitled to oppose the Order of Business and I am entitled——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Statements must be brief as per Standing Order 26.

Deputy Liz McManus: Information on Liz McManus  Zoom on Liz McManus  Deputy Gilmore is being brief.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  I am entitled to give my reasons for opposing the Order of Business and the proposal before us.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  One of the reasons is, if the Ceann Comhairle will bear with me, that the proposal the Government has before us is not adequate to deal with the issue which now must be dealt with. The Governor of the Central Bank this morning told us what the Taoiseach has refused to tell us for the past week, which is that the Government is negotiating a multi-billion euro loan.

Deputy Brian Lenihan: Information on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Zoom on Brian Joseph Lenihan  That is not what he said.

[486]Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  I want clarification from the Tánaiste. First of all, will she confirm——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  These questions can be posed in the question and answer session.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  No, they cannot.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  The Minister for Finance will take them.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  The questions relate to the statement that will be made.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn: Information on Ruairí Quinn  Zoom on Ruairí Quinn  They will not be answered.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  What Standing Order is the Ceann Comhairle relying on to interrupt me?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  No. 26.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  No. 26 quite clearly asserts my right to explain why I am opposing——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  The Deputy has a right to make a brief statement——

Deputy Liz McManus: Information on Liz McManus  Zoom on Liz McManus  He is making a brief statement.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  I am making a brief statement.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  ——but not to have a Second Stage length contribution on the Order of Business.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  He would be finished if the Chair stopped interrupting him.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  The Chair has interrupted Deputy Gilmore four times.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn: Information on Ruairí Quinn  Zoom on Ruairí Quinn  A little impartiality would go a long way.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  The Ceann Comhairle has interrupted me——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  I am endeavouring to ensure that we maintain order in the Chamber and all I am asking is for the Deputy’s co-operation.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Am I being disorderly?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  No, I am just asking for the Deputy’s co-operation in the matter. Let us move on with the business.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  I am not the one that——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  We are on the Order of Business and I wish to move on to take a decision on this proposal.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Deputy Gilmore is not the one dragging it out.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  I am not the one doing the interrupting.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  Correct.

[487]Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  I am simply explaining my reasons——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  The Chair does not interrupt; the Chair intervenes.

Deputy Charles Flanagan: Information on Charles Flanagan  Zoom on Charles Flanagan  This is like a rural pub at 10 o’clock on a Saturday night. That is what this place has become. It is a disgrace.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  I do not want to get into a row with the Ceann Comhairle on this but, with the greatest of respect, his interventions, as he calls them, are not helping either order in the House or respect for the House out there.

Deputy Seán Barrett: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Stop the hoodwink.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Please let me explain the reasons I am opposing the Order of Business. The country is in a very serious state of affairs. We have people from international institutions over in the Department of Finance and we are told by the Governor of the Central Bank this morning that they are negotiating a multi-billion euro loan. My party and I want an opportunity to discuss these matters adequately in the House today and to hear from the Government, first of all, if it is the case, as the Governor of the Central Bank said, that a multi-billion euro loan is being negotiated. Second, if that is the case, I want to know what are the conditions the Government is negotiating with respect to that loan and what implications those conditions will have for public and budgetary policy in this country. We will not be able to do that with statements solely on banking confined to 95 minutes, which will not take into account the number of interventions that the Ceann Comhairle will no doubt make during the course of the debate.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  We are being asked to address in statements the issues before us over a 95 minute period with a limited opportunity for questions following and no opportunity at all to record where Members stand on them. We are only having clarity because we have had the Taoiseach and Ministers across all portfolios trundled out over the past week and more in an exercise of denial clearly to deceive the people and to mislead this House, as was the case over the past two days in responses regarding this matter raised by a range of Opposition voices. What is being proposed is not a bailout for the Irish people. That is not what is being looked at by the IMF, the ECB and the European Commission. It will have no consequence in terms of reliefs for social welfare, health spending or education needs. What this is all about is supporting the Government in its bailout of the banks and the ECB looms behind them as one of the critical investors.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  These points can be made during the statements.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  I have no doubt that they will. The Government is here cap in glove looking for moneys to come in to further bail out the banks, which they, in turn, will hand back to the ECB. The tax paying public in this State will pay for all of this.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  The Deputy can put those questions during the question and answer session.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  That is the situation we now face. It is absolutely unacceptable that we are not being provided with an opportunity to express in real terms by either electronic means or manual division in this House our outright objection and rejection of what is proposed.

[488]An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  The Deputy is branching off on several tangents.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  That is what needs to be tested because there are voices on the Government benches who equally reject what is now unfolding and this is a consequence of this Government’s failure. I believe it should be put to the test and an opportunity for a vote on a specific proposition should be before this us today. I object to the proposal that we have statements only in the way the Government has tailored it.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  I am now putting the question. Is the proposal for dealing with No. a17 agreed to?

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  Surely the Tánaiste should reply.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn: Information on Ruairí Quinn  Zoom on Ruairí Quinn  Where is the reply? That is outrageous.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  On a point of order——

Deputy James Reilly: Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  Is the Ceann Comhairle suppressing free speech?

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  There is a long-standing tradition in this House that the Tánaiste or a member of the Government responds to the points made.

Deputy Charles Flanagan: Information on Charles Flanagan  Zoom on Charles Flanagan  The Ceann Comhairle is protecting the Government in this charade.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  The Tánaiste should respond to this

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Is this a sign of things to come that the Irish Tánaiste cannot reply in the Irish Parliament because others down the road are deciding our country’s fate? The Tánaiste should get up and insist on speaking. She represents the Government that is elected for the time being.

Deputy Michael Ring: Information on Michael Ring  Zoom on Michael Ring  Bring the IMF in here and it will talk to us because the Government parties will not.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  The question has been misunderstood.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  The Chair is on his feet. I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  Can I make the point of order?

Deputy Tom Hayes: Information on Tom Hayes  Zoom on Tom Hayes  Allow the Deputy’s point of order.

Deputy Bernard Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  On a point of order, with the country in dire crisis, can we call on the Tánaiste to give the House more time to discuss this vital issue?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  I am putting a proposal to the House for decision.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  This is a disgrace.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Is the proposal for dealing with No. a17 agreed to?

Question put: “That the proposal for dealing with No. a17 be agreed to.”

[489]The Dáil divided: Tá, 70; Níl, 59.

Information on Michael Ahern  Zoom on Michael Ahern  Ahern, Michael. Information on Noel Ahern  Zoom on Noel Ahern  Ahern, Noel.
Information on Barry Andrews  Zoom on Barry Andrews  Andrews, Barry. Information on Chris Andrews  Zoom on Chris Andrews  Andrews, Chris.
Information on Seán Ardagh  Zoom on Seán Ardagh  Ardagh, Seán. Information on Bobby Aylward  Zoom on Bobby Aylward  Aylward, Bobby.
Information on Niall Blaney  Zoom on Niall Blaney  Blaney, Niall. Information on Aine Brady  Zoom on Aine Brady  Brady, Áine.
Information on Cyprian Brady  Zoom on Cyprian Brady  Brady, Cyprian. Information on Johnny Brady  Zoom on Johnny Brady  Brady, Johnny.
Information on John Browne  Zoom on John Browne  Browne, John. Information on Dara Calleary  Zoom on Dara Calleary  Calleary, Dara.
Information on Pat Carey  Zoom on Pat Carey  Carey, Pat. Information on Niall Collins  Zoom on Niall Collins  Collins, Niall.
Information on Margaret Conlon  Zoom on Margaret Conlon  Conlon, Margaret. Information on Sean Connick  Zoom on Sean Connick  Connick, Seán.
Information on Mary Coughlan  Zoom on Mary Coughlan  Coughlan, Mary. Information on John Cregan  Zoom on John Cregan  Cregan, John.
Information on Ciaran Cuffe  Zoom on Ciaran Cuffe  Cuffe, Ciarán. Information on John Curran  Zoom on John Curran  Curran, John.
Information on Noel Dempsey  Zoom on Noel Dempsey  Dempsey, Noel. Information on Jimmy Devins  Zoom on Jimmy Devins  Devins, Jimmy.
Information on Tim Dooley  Zoom on Tim Dooley  Dooley, Timmy. Information on Frank Fahey  Zoom on Frank Fahey  Fahey, Frank.
Information on Michael Finneran  Zoom on Michael Finneran  Finneran, Michael. Information on Beverley Cooper-Flynn  Zoom on Beverley Cooper-Flynn  Flynn, Beverley.
Information on Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Zoom on Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Gogarty, Paul. Information on John Gormley  Zoom on John Gormley  Gormley, John.
Information on Mary Hanafin  Zoom on Mary Hanafin  Hanafin, Mary. Information on Mary Harney  Zoom on Mary Harney  Harney, Mary.
Information on Seán Haughey  Zoom on Seán Haughey  Haughey, Seán. Information on Jackie Healy-Rae  Zoom on Jackie Healy-Rae  Healy-Rae, Jackie.
Information on Máire Hoctor  Zoom on Máire Hoctor  Hoctor, Máire. Information on Billy Kelleher  Zoom on Billy Kelleher  Kelleher, Billy.
Information on Peter Kelly  Zoom on Peter Kelly  Kelly, Peter. Information on Brendan Kenneally  Zoom on Brendan Kenneally  Kenneally, Brendan.
Information on Michael Kennedy  Zoom on Michael Kennedy  Kennedy, Michael. Information on Tony Killeen  Zoom on Tony Killeen  Killeen, Tony.
Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Kitt, Michael P. Information on Tom Kitt  Zoom on Tom Kitt  Kitt, Tom.
Information on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Zoom on Brian Joseph Lenihan  Lenihan, Brian. Information on Conor Lenihan  Zoom on Conor Lenihan  Lenihan, Conor.
Information on Tom McEllistrim  Zoom on Tom McEllistrim  McEllistrim, Thomas. Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  McGrath, Mattie.
Information on Michael McGrath  Zoom on Michael McGrath  McGrath, Michael. Information on Dr Martin Mansergh  Zoom on Dr Martin Mansergh  Mansergh, Martin.
Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  Martin, Micheál. Information on John Moloney  Zoom on John Moloney  Moloney, John.
Information on Michael Moynihan  Zoom on Michael Moynihan  Moynihan, Michael. Information on M. J. Nolan  Zoom on M. J. Nolan  Nolan, M.J.
Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  Ó Cuív, Éamon. Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
Information on Darragh O'Brien  Zoom on Darragh O'Brien  O’Brien, Darragh. Information on Charlie O'Connor  Zoom on Charlie O'Connor  O’Connor, Charlie.
Information on Willie O'Dea  Zoom on Willie O'Dea  O’Dea, Willie. Information on John O'Donoghue  Zoom on John O'Donoghue  O’Donoghue, John.
Information on Noel O'Flynn  Zoom on Noel O'Flynn  O’Flynn, Noel. Information on Rory O'Hanlon  Zoom on Rory O'Hanlon  O’Hanlon, Rory.
Information on Batt O'Keeffe  Zoom on Batt O'Keeffe  O’Keeffe, Batt. Information on Christy O'Sullivan  Zoom on Christy O'Sullivan  O’Sullivan, Christy.
Information on Peter Power  Zoom on Peter Power  Power, Peter. Information on Seán Power  Zoom on Seán Power  Power, Seán.
Information on Dick Roche  Zoom on Dick Roche  Roche, Dick. Information on Eamon Ryan  Zoom on Eamon Ryan  Ryan, Eamon.
Information on Trevor Sargent  Zoom on Trevor Sargent  Sargent, Trevor. Information on Eamon Scanlon  Zoom on Eamon Scanlon  Scanlon, Eamon.
Information on Brendan Smith  Zoom on Brendan Smith  Smith, Brendan. Information on Noel Treacy  Zoom on Noel Treacy  Treacy, Noel.
Information on Mary Wallace  Zoom on Mary Wallace  Wallace, Mary. Information on Mary Alexandra White  Zoom on Mary Alexandra White  White, Mary Alexandra.



Níl
Information on James Bannon  Zoom on James Bannon  Bannon, James. Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Barrett, Seán.
Information on Joe Behan  Zoom on Joe Behan  Behan, Joe. Information on Pat Breen  Zoom on Pat Breen  Breen, Pat.
Information on Thomas P. Broughan  Zoom on Thomas P. Broughan  Broughan, Thomas P. Information on Ulick Burke  Zoom on Ulick Burke  Burke, Ulick.
Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Burton, Joan. Information on Catherine Byrne  Zoom on Catherine Byrne  Byrne, Catherine.
Information on Joe Carey  Zoom on Joe Carey  Carey, Joe. Information on Deirdre Clune  Zoom on Deirdre Clune  Clune, Deirdre.
Information on Paul Connaughton  Zoom on Paul Connaughton  Connaughton, Paul. Information on Noel Coonan  Zoom on Noel Coonan  Coonan, Noel J.
Information on Joe Costello  Zoom on Joe Costello  Costello, Joe. Information on Simon Coveney  Zoom on Simon Coveney  Coveney, Simon.
Information on Michael D'Arcy  Zoom on Michael D'Arcy  D’Arcy, Michael. Information on Jimmy Deenihan  Zoom on Jimmy Deenihan  Deenihan, Jimmy.
Information on Andrew Doyle  Zoom on Andrew Doyle  Doyle, Andrew. Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  Durkan, Bernard J.
Information on Olwyn Enright  Zoom on Olwyn Enright  Enright, Olwyn. Information on Frank Feighan  Zoom on Frank Feighan  Feighan, Frank.
Information on Martin Ferris  Zoom on Martin Ferris  Ferris, Martin. Information on Charles Flanagan  Zoom on Charles Flanagan  Flanagan, Charles.
Information on Terence Flanagan  Zoom on Terence Flanagan  Flanagan, Terence. Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Gilmore, Eamon.
Information on Tom Hayes  Zoom on Tom Hayes  Hayes, Tom. Information on Michael D. Higgins  Zoom on Michael D. Higgins  Higgins, Michael D.
Information on Philip Hogan  Zoom on Philip Hogan  Hogan, Phil. Information on Brendan Howlin  Zoom on Brendan Howlin  Howlin, Brendan.
Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  Kenny, Enda. Information on Ciaran Lynch  Zoom on Ciaran Lynch  Lynch, Ciarán.
Information on Pádraic McCormack  Zoom on Pádraic McCormack  McCormack, Pádraic. Information on Shane McEntee  Zoom on Shane McEntee  McEntee, Shane.
Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  McGrath, Finian. Information on Liz McManus  Zoom on Liz McManus  McManus, Liz.
Information on Denis Naughten  Zoom on Denis Naughten  Naughten, Denis. Information on Dan Neville  Zoom on Dan Neville  Neville, Dan.
Information on Michael Noonan  Zoom on Michael Noonan  Noonan, Michael. Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  Ó Snodaigh, Aengus. Information on Kieran O'Donnell  Zoom on Kieran O'Donnell  O’Donnell, Kieran.
Information on Fergus O'Dowd  Zoom on Fergus O'Dowd  O’Dowd, Fergus. Information on Jim O'Keeffe  Zoom on Jim O'Keeffe  O’Keeffe, Jim.
Information on John O'Mahony  Zoom on John O'Mahony  O’Mahony, John. Information on Brian O'Shea  Zoom on Brian O'Shea  O’Shea, Brian.
Information on Jan O'Sullivan  Zoom on Jan O'Sullivan  O’Sullivan, Jan. Information on Maureen O'Sullivan  Zoom on Maureen O'Sullivan  O’Sullivan, Maureen.
Information on Ruairí Quinn  Zoom on Ruairí Quinn  Quinn, Ruairí. Information on Pat Rabbitte  Zoom on Pat Rabbitte  Rabbitte, Pat.
Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  Reilly, James. Information on Michael Ring  Zoom on Michael Ring  Ring, Michael.
Information on Tom Sheahan  Zoom on Tom Sheahan  Sheahan, Tom. Information on P. J. Sheehan  Zoom on P. J. Sheehan  Sheehan, P.J..
Information on Sean Sherlock  Zoom on Sean Sherlock  Sherlock, Seán. Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  Stagg, Emmet.
Information on David Stanton  Zoom on David Stanton  Stanton, David. Information on Billy Timmins  Zoom on Billy Timmins  Timmins, Billy.
Information on Joanna Tuffy  Zoom on Joanna Tuffy  Tuffy, Joanna. Information on Mary Upton  Zoom on Mary Upton  Upton, Mary.
Information on Jack Wall  Zoom on Jack Wall  Wall, Jack.  

Tellers: Tá, Deputies John Cregan and John Curran; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Joe Carey.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Is the proposal for dealing with No. 17 agreed to?

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Baineann an moladh le ráitis faoin straitéis 20 bliain don Ghaeilge. Tá Páirtí an Lucht Oibre ag cur i gcoinne na molta seo mar gheall ar na fáthanna a leanas. Ní raibh an ceart ag an gCeann Comhairle faoin vóta. Tá na Buan Orduithe agam anseo agus tá sé scríofa go soiléir iontu go gceadóidh an Ceann Comhairle ráiteas gairid ó ionadaí de chuid gach páirtí san Fhreasúra agus ón Taoiseach sula gcuireann sé an cheist faoi sin, agus baineann sin leis an Tánaiste nuair atá sise i mbun Riar na hOibre. Níor iarr an Ceann Comhairle ar an Tánaiste freagra a thabhairt do na hionadaithe ón Fhreasúra nuair a labhraíomar faoin ábhar seo agus ní raibh an ceart aige sin a dhéanamh. Ba cheart dó sin a admháil don Teach láithreach.

Táimid ag cur i gcoinne na molta seo freisin mar go dtuigim, agus aontaím leis seo, gur cheart go mbeadh ráitis againn ar an ábhar tábhachtach seo, straitéis na Gaeilge, ach táábhar i bhfad níos práinní ná sin gur cheart dúinn bheith ag déileáil leis sa Teach inniu: an ghéarchéim eacnamaíochta agus airgeadais atá againn sa tír agus, ar ndóigh, an náire idirnáisiúnta atá an Rialtas uafásach seo ag tarraingt aníos ar an tír leis an droch-chaoi atá sé ag láimhseáil an ábhair sin. Go háirithe, tá gá ann go ndéanfaidh an Rialtas ráiteas faoi leith le míniú a thabhairt don Teach faoin ráiteas soiléir a thug Gobharnóir Bhanc Ceannais na hÉireann dúinn ar maidin agus an méid a bhí le rá aige.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Níl cead ag an Teachta——

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Tá an ceart agam.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Níl an Teachta ceart. Níl, níl, níl.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Tá an ceart agus an cead agam ráiteas gairid a dhéanamh faoin moladh atá déanta ag an Rialtas faoin ábhar seo. Tá mé ag déanamh ráitis ghairid.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Tá sé déanta.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Beidh mé críochnaithe i gceann nóiméid.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Tá an cheist sin socraithe.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Ní raibh an ceart ag an gCeann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Bhí an ceart agam.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Bhí vóta ann ach ba cheart don gCeann Comhairle admháil don Teach——

[491]Deputy Noel Dempsey: Information on Noel Dempsey  Zoom on Noel Dempsey  Gairid means short, not ten minutes.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  De bharr na cúiseanna a chuir mé in iúl, tá Páirtí an Lucht Oibre ag dul i gcoinne na molta atá os comhair an Tí faoi láthair.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  Cuirim féin chomh maith i gcoinne na molta atá ann i Riar na hOibre, ní ar an bhonn chéanna leis an Teachta romham ach ar an bhonn gur ráitis atá i gceist seachas rún. Rith an comhchoiste rún agus d’fhoilsigh sé tuarascáil maidir leis an straitéis seo agus ba chóir go mbeadh rún os comhair na Dála ag tacú nó ag cur i gcoinne na tuarascála sin. Ní fiú tráithnín na ráitis, tarlaíonn siad go rialta anseo; uair sa bhliain, tráth Lá Fhéile Pádraig, bíonn ráitis agus ní dhéantar faic dá réir. Ar a laghad, má tá rún os ár gcomhair, beimid ag impí ar an Rialtas rud éigin a dhéanamh de réir tuarascáil an chomhchoiste. Sin an fáth go bhfuil mé ag cur i gcoinne na molta seo.

The Tánaiste: Information on Mary Coughlan  Zoom on Mary Coughlan  Ag éirí as an méid a bhí le rá ag an Fhreasúra, níl dualgas orm a dhath a rá ag éirí as an rud atá os comhair an Tí; tá sé molta agus sin an rud a rinne mé. Chomh maith leis sin, mar gheall ar an díospóireacht seo faoin straitéis, sin an struchtúr atá socraithe idir na haoirí agus sin an fáth go bhfuil méá mholadh anois.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  Cad chuige a thug an Ceann Comhairle cead don Tánaiste freagra a thabhairt don Teachta Gilmore agus an Teachta Ó Snodaigh nuair nár thug sé cead di freagra a thabhairt do na Teachtaí a labhair roimhe seo faoi na deacrachtaí sna bainc? Cad chuige sin?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Chuir mé an cheist.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  Tá mé ag iarraidh ar an gCeann Comhairle, mar chathaoirleach na Dála, a insint dom cad chuige gur thug sé cead don Tánaiste freagra a thabhairt ansin nuair nár thug sé cead di freagra a thabhairt do na Teachtaí eile a labhair faoi chúrsaí eacnamaíochta.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Tá go maith.

Deputy James Reilly: Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  Tabhair freagra dúinn.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  Táim ag cur ceiste ar an gCeann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Buailfimid ar aghaidh. Is the proposal for dealing with——

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  Ní bhuailfimid ar aghaidh. Tá mé ag cur ceist ar an gCeann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Is the proposal for dealing with No. 17 agreed to?

Deputy James Reilly: Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  This is more inconsistency from the Chair.

Question, “That the proposal for dealing with No. 17 be agreed to”, put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  I call Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  I may not have the chance to contribute to the debate on banking. In the light of the truth spoken by the Governor of the Central Bank this morning, do I take it that irrespective of what officials are involved in negotiations or discussions, this is a matter for elected representatives and politicians to make decisions? The job of politicians is to find solutions and make decisions. Do I take it that the 12.5% corporation tax rate will be defended to the limit by the Government? Although we continue to pour billions into a failed banking structure it is not going to work and will only heap further tax on Irish taxpayers for generations. Will the Tánaiste outline the Government’s proposals to shift the banks currently in [492]State ownership from the backs of the Irish taxpayer at no cost? Is it a fact that the Government will now change tack and that bondholders will be made to share part of the burden of what will emerge from the discussions taking place in the Department of Finance and the Central Bank?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  That sounds like a more suitable question for the question and answer session later.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  On the same issue, will the Tánaiste indicate whether Professor Honohan is the leader of the Irish negotiating team? We need clarity from the Government as to the status of officials speaking nationally and internationally on the Irish sovereigns position in respect of banking and budgetary matters. This must be clarified for those of us in the House as well as for international media outlets. What was the status of Professor Honohan’s comments this morning? Was he speaking in a personal capacity? Was he speaking as the Governor and a member of the European Central Bank, ECB?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  That is a question for the question and answer session later, after the statements.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Was he speaking as the principal negotiator for Ireland? It is important that this is clarified with regard to the work being carried out in Ireland by the teams from the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and the European Commission, which are now in the country. These teams work to a template as they have done in other countries. Will the Tánaiste indicate whether a bank resolution mechanism will be part of the template of reform?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Will the Deputy hold that question for the question and answer session?

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  No.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  It is a perfectly suitable question to ask at that time.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  I am trying to be brief. A bank resolution mechanism has been promised for almost one year by the Minister for Finance and the Taoiseach on various occasions as legislation in preparation.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Deputy, will you be in the House for the question and answer session?

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  In the context of the visit of the teams——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Do you not think that would be an appropriate time to ask that question?

Deputy Liz McManus: Information on Liz McManus  Zoom on Liz McManus  This is about legislation.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  This is about promised legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  This is the Order of Business.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Promised legislation on the Central Bank (No. 2) Bill is overdue at this point.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Okay, proceed then.

[493]Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Will the Government and the Tánaiste indicate whether bank resolution legislation is included as part of that, because it is a necessity? Will the Tánaiste indicate whether the structure of the bailout facility being discussed by the international teams has been identified as yet? Will it be added to our national debt? If it is, our debt to GDP ratio will rise very dramatically along with the cost of interest to the State.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  The Deputy is going into detail.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  That was very brief.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  A brief inquiry only, please. Have we promised legislation in this area, Tánaiste?

The Tánaiste: Information on Mary Coughlan  Zoom on Mary Coughlan  Regarding the issue of legislation on the bank resolution, the heads are being prepared by the Minister and will be brought forward in due course. I will not enter into any other discourse on the issue because the Minister for Finance will be here presently to outline the outcome of his discussions and to take a question and answer session. However, I take the opportunity to say to Deputy Kenny that the 12.5% corporation tax is non-negotiable.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  We will move on to statements on banking.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch: Information on Ciaran Lynch  Zoom on Ciaran Lynch  Are we not on the Order of Business?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Gabh mo leith scéal.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch: Information on Ciaran Lynch  Zoom on Ciaran Lynch  Yesterday morning I raised with the Tánaiste the issue of the working group on mortgage arrears, which published a document yesterday afternoon. Will the Tánaiste indicate whether time will be given to deliberate and debate the contents of the report?

The Tánaiste: Information on Mary Coughlan  Zoom on Mary Coughlan  That matter can be discussed between the Whips.

Deputy James Reilly: Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  Regarding the Appropriation Bill, will the Tánaiste confirm to the House whether the Government will deliver a budget of itself or whether the ongoing “discussions”, as it wishes to euphemistically refer to them, will dictate the budget to the House?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  That question can be asked later.

Deputy James Reilly: Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  The Minister for Finance is beside the Tánaiste and I am sure he will advise her. We were informed by the Taoiseach that the drugs reference pricing Bill would be passed through the House at the same time as the drugs prescription charges legislation. However, I note it has been postponed to next year. The Bill could save hundreds of millions of euro in what we pay for our drugs but it is left out in never never land. Such waste has led this country into the sorry condition in which it finds itself. The Government is living in a fantasy land where the IMF is about to increase the rent which the people will have to pay.

The Tánaiste: Information on Mary Coughlan  Zoom on Mary Coughlan  The heads for the reference pricing for drugs Bill have been approved by the Government and it will be next year.


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