Order of Business Tuesday, 7 December 2010

Dáil Éireann Debate Vol. 724 No. 1 Unrevised Page of 290

  3 o’clock

The Taoiseach:    It is proposed to take No. 6, motion re leave to introduce Supplementary Estimate [Vote 25]; No. 7, motion re referral of Supplementary Estimate [Vote 25] to select committee; and No. 36, Budget Statement and the financial motions by the Minister for Finance to be taken today at 3.45 p.m. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and the motion for the General Financial Resolution shall be moved not later than 12 midnight, whereupon business shall be interrupted and the Dáil shall adjourn forthwith; No. 6 and, subject to the agreement of No. 6, No. 7, referral to select committee, shall be decided without debate and any divisions demanded on Nos. 6 and 7 shall be taken forthwith; following the Budget Statement of the Minister for Finance, the following arrangements shall apply in relation to the proceedings on No. 36: the statements of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin shall not exceed 40 minutes, and following the statements the sitting shall be suspended for 30 minutes; all divisions demanded on No. 36 shall be taken manually; the business to be transacted tomorrow shall be as follows: Leaders’ Questions to be taken at 10.30 a.m., No. 36, financial motions by the Minister for Finance (resumed), on which the speech of the Taoiseach and of the leaders of the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party, the Green Party and Sinn Féin, or a person nominated in his stead who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 40 minutes in each case, following the leaders’ speeches, the sitting shall be suspended for 60 minutes, and the speech of each other Member called upon, who [10]may share time, shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case; and Social Welfare Bill 2010, Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken not later than 6.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle:    There are five proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and the motion for the General Financial Resolution shall be moved not later than 12 midnight, whereupon business shall be interrupted and the Dáil shall adjourn forthwith, agreed to?

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The Sinn Féin Deputies will not agree to this Order of Business. We contend this Government has neither a moral nor a democratic right to impose a budget on the people today.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, it is inappropriate to get into this discussion on the Order of Business.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    No, it is not. I am challenging the Order of Business.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I know, yes.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    Very clearly, this will be a budget based on the IMF-EU sell-out deal and on a four year plan that seeks to tie the Irish people to an economic strategy which is doomed from the outset. Clearly, the situation is that the Taoiseach’s Government is on a life support machine, courtesy of Deputies Healy-Rae and Lowry. When will the Taoiseach declare the detail of any agreement made with these Deputies, who are present today to save his hide and to impose——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will be aware there are severe time constraints today.

The Taoiseach:    We are here today to vote for a budget the country needs.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    No, I beg the Ceann Comahirle’s pardon——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Budget Statement is at 3.45 p.m., I have five proposals to dispose of and that is why——

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    I object to this at the outset. As I indicated in the House last week, it is clear this Government has no right to proceed with the introduction of a budget based on an IMF-EU deal which it has not yet put before the Members of this Dáil for a vote——

An Ceann Comhairle:    All those points can be made during the budget debate——

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    ——as required under Article 29 of the Constitution.

An Ceann Comhairle:    ——and I am sure the Deputy will make them. I ask him to resume his seat.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The Government is acting unconstitutionally.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, resume your seat, please.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    Will you allow me to finish?

An Ceann Comhairle:    You are out of order on the Order of Business.

[11]Deputies:  Out of order.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    I am not out of order, a Cheann Comhairle. What is out of order is the Government’ s action——

An Ceann Comhairle:    We have five proposals to dispose of and the Budget Statement will commence at 3.45 p.m.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    ——and we——

An Ceann Comhairle:    We are running into different tangents that are not relevant to the issue being discussed.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    I was not aware a guillotine applies. Is a guillotine being applied to an objection to the Order of Business?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Yes.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    Is that the case? Where is the guillotine?

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Chair must be conscious of time constraints. I ask the Members of the House to co-operate.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    I will conclude with this point. The Government’s proposals are absolutely unacceptable. I reiterate the Government has no moral or democratic right to proceed with the imposition of a budget that will lead to more poverty, unemployment and social misery across this land. The thing to do now is for the Taoiseach to go to the Park and allow the people have their chance to pass judgment.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, resume your seat.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    That is the only way to proceed.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I am now putting the question: “That the proposal for dealing with No. 1 — that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and the motion for the General Financial Resolution shall be moved not later than midnight whereupon business shall then be interrupted and the Dáil shall adjourn forthwith — be agreed to.”

Deputies:  Vótáil.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Will the Deputies claiming a division please rise?

Deputies Pearse Doherty, Martin Ferris, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Arthur Morgan rose.

An Ceann Comhairle:    As fewer than ten Members have risen I declare the question carried. In accordance with Standing Order 70, the names of the Deputies dissenting will be recorded in the Journal of the Proceedings of the Dáil.

Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 6 and 7 without debate agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 36 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal that all divisions demanded on No. 36 be taken manually agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for the business of the Dáil tomorrow agreed to?

[12]Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    It is not agreed to.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    With regard to the business to be transacted tomorrow, I have no difficulty with No. 36 in respect of the financial motions. However, as the Taoiseach will be aware, we have been consistent in objecting to Bills being guillotined. I understand it is proposed to guillotine the Social Welfare Bill. This Bill concerns great numbers of people around the country, be they pensioners, people on various schemes or the unemployed. From that point of view, given these exceptional circumstances, it is a matter on which many Deputies will want to make a contribution. I object to it on the basis of a guillotine being proposed by the Government.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    This proposal relates to the way in which the social welfare Bill will be introduced. The Government intends to move and complete two Bills this week — the social welfare Bill and the financial emergency measures in the public interest (No. 2) Bill——

Deputy Darragh O’Brien:    We want to be able to do it before Christmas. The Deputy cannot have it both ways. He gives out——

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    ——neither of which anybody in this House has seen. Yet the Government is proposing that the social welfare Bill will be introduced tomorrow evening. It is proposed that it will be guillotined at 4.45 p.m. on Thursday. The financial emergency measures Bill will be introduced then and that will be guillotined and completed by 1 p.m. on Friday. That is not an acceptable way to deal with what are likely to be substantial measures contained in these Bills. We do not know yet what those measures will be because the Bills have not been circulated. It is unacceptable that business would be dealt with in this way.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    I object to the Order of Business regarding proposal No. 5 because first and foremost the Taoiseach is guillotining the opportunity for Members of this House to participate in the statements on the financial motions introduced by the Minister for Finance for 6.30 p.m. tomorrow evening and the introduction of the social welfare Bill at that time. The indicators again are that the guillotine will apply to the social welfare Bill on Thursday through all Stages. We then have the financial emergency measures in the public interest No. 2 Bill, which is scheduled to be forced through the House on Friday, with votes on Friday; I find it difficult to recall the last time that took place. What is the financial emergency measures in the public interest (No. 2) Bill addressing? Is that the Bill to facilitate a cut to the minimum wage?

The whole approach by the Government is to force through the maximum pain on the greatest number of our citizens over the remaining dying days of this Government. As I said earlier, it has neither a moral nor a democratic right to introduce——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, will you resume your seat or I will ask you to leave the House?

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    ——any such measures.

Deputy Dick Roche:    Deputy Ó Caoláin has some gall to talk about——

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    Why will the Taoiseach not——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is broadening the discussion, as he does all the time. Resume your seat.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    We are objecting.

[13]The Taoiseach:    Regarding the matters which have been raised, these matters arise out of the budget announcement which will take place very shortly and will be dealt with this week. It is important that they are dealt with and disposed of because they are issues which will have to be brought into——

Deputy Pat Rabbitte:    It is very important they are dealt with before the lads go home for the weekend.

The Taoiseach:    It is very important that they would be dealt with one way or the other. We have a serious situation in this country that needs to be addressed. We brought forward a four year plan. We now have an agreement with the European Union and the International Monetary Fund, IMF, and we now have a budget to put through. Many are watching from outside as to the determination of this House to do what is necessary in the national interest during the course of financial resolutions to be taken this evening.

If Deputy Ó Caoláin does not mind I will take a pass on a lecture on morals from that quarter.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The Taoiseach will learn a lot more when he faces the people in January.

Question put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 78; Níl, 71.

Tá
Ahern, Bertie.	Ahern, Dermot.
Ahern, Michael.	Ahern, Noel.
Andrews, Barry.	Andrews, Chris.
Ardagh, Seán.	Aylward, Bobby.
Behan, Joe.	Blaney, Niall.
Brady, Áine.	Brady, Cyprian.
Brady, Johnny.	Browne, John.
Byrne, Thomas.	Calleary, Dara.
Carey, Pat.	Collins, Niall.
Conlon, Margaret.	Connick, Seán.
Coughlan, Mary.	Cowen, Brian.
Cregan, John.	Cuffe, Ciarán.
Curran, John.	Dempsey, Noel.
Devins, Jimmy.	Dooley, Timmy.
Fahey, Frank.	Finneran, Michael.
Fitzpatrick, Michael.	Fleming, Seán.
Flynn, Beverley.	Gogarty, Paul.
Gormley, John.	Hanafin, Mary.
Harney, Mary.	Haughey, Seán.
Healy-Rae, Jackie.	Kelleher, Billy.
Kelly, Peter.	Kenneally, Brendan.
Kennedy, Michael.	Kitt, Michael P.
Kitt, Tom.	Lenihan, Conor.
Lowry, Michael.	McEllistrim, Thomas.
McGrath, Mattie.	McGrath, Michael.
McGuinness, John.	Mansergh, Martin.
Martin, Micheál.	Moloney, John.
Moynihan, Michael.	Mulcahy, Michael.
Nolan, M. J.	Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.	O’Brien, Darragh.
O’Connor, Charlie.	O’Dea, Willie.
O’Donoghue, John.	O’Flynn, Noel.
O’Hanlon, Rory.	O’Keeffe, Batt.
O’Keeffe, Edward.	O’Rourke, Mary.
O’Sullivan, Christy.	Power, Peter.
Power, Seán.	Roche, Dick.
Sargent, Trevor.	Scanlon, Eamon.
Smith, Brendan.	Treacy, Noel.
Wallace, Mary.	White, Mary Alexandra.

Níl
Allen, Bernard.	Bannon, James.
Barrett, Seán.	Breen, Pat.
Broughan, Thomas P.	Burke, Ulick.
Burton, Joan.	Byrne, Catherine.
Carey, Joe.	Clune, Deirdre.
Connaughton, Paul.	Coonan, Noel J.
Costello, Joe.	Coveney, Simon.
Crawford, Seymour.	Creighton, Lucinda.
D’Arcy, Michael.	Deasy, John.
Deenihan, Jimmy.	Doherty, Pearse.
Doyle, Andrew.	Durkan, Bernard J.
English, Damien.	Enright, Olwyn.
Feighan, Frank.	Ferris, Martin.
Flanagan, Charles.	Gilmore, Eamon.
Grealish, Noel.	Hayes, Brian.
Hayes, Tom.	Higgins, Michael D.
Hogan, Phil.	Howlin, Brendan.
Kehoe, Paul.	Kenny, Enda.
Lynch, Kathleen.	McCormack, Pádraic.
McEntee, Shane.	McGinley, Dinny.
McGrath, Finian.	McManus, Liz.
Mitchell, Olivia.	Morgan, Arthur.
Naughten, Denis.	Neville, Dan.
Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.	Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
O’Donnell, Kieran.	O’Dowd, Fergus.
O’Keeffe, Jim.	O’Shea, Brian.
O’Sullivan, Jan.	O’Sullivan, Maureen.
Penrose, Willie.	Perry, John.
Quinn, Ruairí.	Rabbitte, Pat.
Reilly, James.	Ring, Michael.
Shatter, Alan.	Sheahan, Tom.
Sheehan, P. J.	Sherlock, Seán.
Shortall, Róisín.	Stagg, Emmet.
Stanton, David.	Timmins, Billy.
Tuffy, Joanna.	Upton, Mary.
Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies John Cregan and John Curran; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Perhaps we could at this point suspend proceedings until the Budget Statement at 3.45 p.m. Gabh mo leithscéal, Deputy Kenny.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    It is only appropriate that we should ask a number of questions on the Order of Business, as is traditional and is right and proper.

An Ceann Comhairle:    There are a number of motions to be agreed before the Budget Statement.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    Do you want to put them?

[15]An Ceann Comhairle:    If we could deal with them, it would be good. With co-operation, we could dispose of them quickly.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    Are these motions you have there?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Yes, the leave to introduce the Supplementary Estimate.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    May I ask a couple of questions after that on the Order of Business?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Yes, briefly.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    Can I do that?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Right.

Deputy Enda Kenny:    Do you want to put the motions now?

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