Order of Business Thursday, 9 December 2010

Dáil Éireann Debate Vol. 724 No. 3 Unrevised Page of 96

The Tánaiste:    It is proposed to take No. 35a, Supplementary Estimate [Vote 25], back from committee; No. 8, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the National Economic and Social Council (Alteration of Composition) Order 2010; No. 1, Prevention of Corruption (Amendment) Bill 2008 — amendments from the Seanad; No. a4, Social Welfare Bill 2010 — Second Stage (resumed) and Remaining Stages; and No. b4, Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2010 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 4.45 p.m. today and business shall be interrupted not later than 8 p.m.; Nos. 35a and 8 shall be decided without debate and any division demanded on No. 35a shall be taken forthwith; the following arrangements shall apply in relation to No. a4: the proceedings on the resumed Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 2 p.m. today and the proceedings on the Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.45 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Social Protection; the Dáil shall sit tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and shall adjourn not later than 1 p.m., there shall be no Order of Business within the meaning of Standing Order 26 and, accordingly, the following business shall be transacted: No. b4, Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2010 — Second Stage (resumed) and Remaining Stages, the proceedings on the resumed Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 11 a.m. and the proceedings on the Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 1 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance.

An Ceann Comhairle:    There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 4.45 p.m. agreed to?

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    Before we deal with any of the business today, we need to get clarity from the Government with regard to its own future. On 22 November the Green Party announced that it intended to withdraw from Government after the budget and the associated financial legislation was passed, and that there would be a general election at the end of January.

[588]Deputy Seymour Crawford:    They are already gone.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    The Taoiseach subsequently said it was his intention to dissolve the Dáil when the budgetary measures had been enacted and that therefore there would be an election, presumably, in February. From news reports this morning it would appear that the Green Party Members have changed their minds again and have now found a new basis on which to prolong the life of the Fianna Fáil-led Government.

Deputy Brendan Howlin:    Ne’er a green around.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    Putting the green bottles back up on the wall again, all six of them.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    What is the exact position here? When will the Government be brought to a conclusion? When will the general election——

A Deputy:  Here is Deputy Gogarty.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    He is listening to Spin FM.

A Deputy:  He is talking to the Minister, Deputy Gormley.

Deputy Brendan Howlin:    He is ready to be electrocuted.

A Deputy:  He is on life support in the ears.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputies, please.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    Can the Tánaiste tell us to what planet the Green Party Members are wired today?

Deputy Paul Gogarty:    I was listening to the Deputy on the phone.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We will not have a full-scale debate on this matter. We are dealing with the Order of Business. I call the Tánaiste to give a brief response.

The Tánaiste:    I thought we were to refer to the Supplementary Estimate, which I wish to move. As the Taoiseach has said, the general election will be in 2011. Post-budgetary measures will need to be addressed here in the House and we are working towards a legislative process at which stage the Taoiseach will then decide the date of the general election.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Tá go maith. Is the——

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    There is a serious——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is not allowed to come in a second time on the Order of Business on such a matter. There are four items to be dealt with.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    We have a new date for the general election, called 2011. We know from experience——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, please.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    ——that when the Government states 2011, it usually means the end of 2011.

Deputy Timmy Dooley:    We are giving the Opposition a chance to——

[589]An Ceann Comhairle:    We will not have a debate on it at this time. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 4.45 p.m. agreed to? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 35a Supplementary Estimate [Vote 25] and No. 8, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the National Economic and Social Council (Alteration of Composition) Order 2010 without debate agreed to? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with No. a4, Social Welfare Bill 2010 — Second Stage (resumed) and Remaining Stages agreed to?

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    It is not agreed.

Deputy James Reilly:    This is not agreed. The Government is again using guillotines to shorten the debate on one of the most appalling Social Welfare Bills to come before the House. It wants to take money away from carers and blind people. We have calculated what would be saved by taking this money from 3,000 blind people.

An Ceann Comhairle:    This is a procedural issue to deal with the arrangements.

Deputy James Reilly:    I am very much dealing with the arrangements and I want to speak about the rationale behind our opposition to the arrangements. This is a matter that infuriates the country. That for the sake of €1.25 million——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Reilly, please.

Deputy James Reilly:    ——blind people will have their pension reduced——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy or his party’s spokesperson on this area will have an opportunity to have an input into the debate.

Deputy James Reilly:    ——which may reduce their ability to be independent.

Deputy Noel J. Coonan:    Good man, James.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    The Ceann Comhairle does not talk over Deputy Gilmore the way he consistently talks over Members sitting on these benches.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Shatter, please.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    He does it every single day on the Order of Business.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Shatter, please.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    He should contain himself occasionally.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Shatter, it is in the interests of maintaining proper order in the House.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    The Ceann Comhairle creates the disorder.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Will the Deputy allow his party’s deputy leader to continue?

Deputy James Reilly:    I will proceed if the Ceann Comhairle would allow me. The bottom line is that this is being done for the sake of a miserly €90 million; out of €6,000 million, it is unbelievable that this €90 million could not be found somewhere else——

Deputy Noel J. Coonan:    That is small change for the Minister.

[590]Deputy James Reilly:    ——such as through drug reference pricing.

Deputy Noel J. Coonan:    It is small change.

Deputy James Reilly:    The Minister for Health and Children, who is across the floor of the Chamber, scoffed in July at the thought of hundreds of millions of euro being made available through drugs savings but she issued a press release yesterday or the day before stating that this is what she intends to do.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    Hear, hear.

Deputy James Reilly:    Why does she have to wait until the IMF was not only at the door but sitting in the parlour before she acts? It is same with everything with this Government; it is always too little and far too late.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    Hear, hear.

Deputy James Reilly:    There is much anger in the country about this. Only five Opposition Deputies have had a chance to speak on this Bill.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell:    Hear. hear.

Deputy James Reilly:    We want more time to discuss it. We want more time for members of the Government to explain their rationale and perhaps examine their conscience on why they are going to go after carers who save this State hundreds of millions of euro by looking after their loved ones at home. They want to guillotine the debate on this Bill and they want this done before the weekend before backbenchers go back to face their constituents——

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell:    Hear, hear.

Deputy James Reilly:    ——and have to hear the people. They will not listen but they will have to hear them. The Tánaiste and the Ceann Comhairle should listen; we oppose this utterly. We want more time to discuss this Bill. We want every Member of this House to have an opportunity to exercise his or democratic right and express the views of his or her constituents here.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    The Labour Party is opposed to guillotining the debate on the Social Welfare Bill at 2 p.m. today. It is bad enough that this Government is cutting the payments and allowances that are being made to people who are blind, widows, people who are out of work, people with disabilities and people who are caring for members of their families. It is bad enough that those cuts are being brought in under this budget but it adds insult to injury to do it in the way the Government is doing it by saying that it will close discussion on the Bill at 2 p.m. today without giving an opportunity to every Member of the Dáil who wants to contribute to it to do so and, more particularly, without giving us an opportunity to tease out some of the hidden cuts contained in the budget.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    For example, the one Deputy Shortall highlighted yesterday whereby working widows and widowers are being hit three times in three different ways by three different measures in this——

[591]An Ceann Comhairle:    We will have a debate on that——

Deputy Brendan Howlin:    The Deputy is explaining why we are not having that debate.

An Ceann Comhairle:    ——and all these points can be made at that stage.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins:    No, they cannot if we do not have enough time to do so.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    No, that is the reason. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for drawing attention to this because it is the reason I am opposing this measure. We will not have an opportunity, as he said, to debate all these matters because the proposal from the Government is to guillotine the debate on it. On top of the insult that is being added to injury, this morning we learned that the senior executives in Allied Irish Banks will be paid a bonus, which is more than a carer will get for a full year, something the Government failed to legislate for when the bank guarantee was brought in.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Gilmore, we need to move on.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    It was difficult to listen to the Minister for Social Protection, God help us, this morning, on the one hand trying to explain to people why their allowances and payments under social welfare were being cut——

An Ceann Comhairle:    We cannot promote a debate on this; only brief statements can be made now. We are well beyond the point of brief statements having been made.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    ——and then offering post-hoc justification as to why these bonuses will be paid. What did they get the bonuses for?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, please. I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Deputy Michael Ring:    You might have to go to America to visit the people who took the money from them.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Ring, allow the Deputy in possession to proceed.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    Today the Government is asking us to agree to the ordering of business that will allow for the ramming through of the Social Welfare Bill that seeks to savagely strike out again at the most vulnerable in our society. Against all of that, as has just been referred to, the executives in Allied Irish Banks, a bank that is now virtually State-owned, will be paid bonuses up to a sum of some €40 million, we are told, and the cheques will be in the post by 17 December in time for Christmas.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We are on the arrangements for the Social Welfare Bill.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    We have to get real. The Government is taking its eye off the ball in that regard for sure. Shamelessly, the Government is seeking to place the most vulnerable in the worst possible situation facing into Christmas and the New Year. There is no way we can agree to the passage of this Bill, or the ordering of what is here — let there be no mistake about it. One can look at budgets in isolation but it is total madness to do that. During the past 12 months, from budget 2010 to budget 2011, the Government will have taken €16.50 out of the pockets of carers across this State. That is an absolutely outrageous situation——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy has gone well beyond making a brief statement.

[592]Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    ——and shame on the Fianna Fáil and Green Party Members for doing so.

The Tánaiste:    These are difficult times and difficulties are faced by many people.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    The Government is making it more difficult for them.

The Tánaiste:    It is appropriate to reiterate that the Government had trebled the amount of expenditure on social welfare. It has moved from a level of expenditure of €6.7 billion in 2000 to €20.9 billion. It is a bit precious of the deputy leader of Fine Gael to come forward with his new found empathy for those who are less well off.

A Deputy:  He always had empathy.

The Tánaiste:    On the basis of his previous existence, he was one of the people who definitely ensured that the GPs in this country——

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    That was good negotiation.

The Tánaiste:    ——had the best rip-off of the Irish taxpayer that ever took place and the Minister for Health and Children had to go back and review it.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    I call that good negotiation.

Deputy Tom Hayes:    That was a good note for Mary to slip to the Tánaiste.

The Tánaiste:    It is appropriate to say that the Minister for Health and Children was in a position to get a €200 million saving on patented drugs in the last number of months through her negotiation and her skills.

Deputy Michael Ring:    The Minister for Health and Children never left Fianna Fáil. Mary never left it.

The Tánaiste:    On the issues raised by the Labour Party, the Taoiseach put it well in this House when he spoke about the differences between the parties. With Fine Gael we would not have any tax increases and with the Labour Party we would have no social welfare decreases.

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste:    These measures would be neither credible nor acceptable, and the most preposterous of all is what Sinn Féin is saying, where we would not have any money at all over the next number of years to pay any social welfare benefits.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the proposal for dealing with item No. a4, Second and Remaining Stages of the Social Welfare Bill 2010 agreed to?

Question put: “That the proposal for dealing with a4 be agreed to.”

[593]The Dáil divided: Tá, 76; Níl, 68.

Tá
Ahern, Bertie.	Ahern, Dermot.
Ahern, Michael.	Ahern, Noel.
Andrews, Barry.	Andrews, Chris.
Aylward, Bobby.	Behan, Joe.
Blaney, Niall.	Brady, Áine.
Brady, Cyprian.	Brady, Johnny.
Browne, John.	Byrne, Thomas.
Calleary, Dara.	Carey, Pat.
Collins, Niall.	Conlon, Margaret.
Connick, Seán.	Coughlan, Mary.
Cregan, John.	Curran, John.
Dempsey, Noel.	Devins, Jimmy.
Dooley, Timmy.	Fahey, Frank.
Finneran, Michael.	Fitzpatrick, Michael.
Fleming, Seán.	Flynn, Beverley.
Gogarty, Paul.	Gormley, John.
Hanafin, Mary.	Harney, Mary.
Haughey, Seán.	Healy-Rae, Jackie.
Hoctor, Máire.	Kelleher, Billy.
Kelly, Peter.	Kennedy, Michael.
Killeen, Tony.	Kitt, Michael P.
Kitt, Tom.	Lenihan, Brian.
Lenihan, Conor.	Lowry, Michael.
McEllistrim, Thomas.	McGrath, Mattie.
McGrath, Michael.	McGuinness, John.
Mansergh, Martin.	Martin, Micheál.
Moloney, John.	Moynihan, Michael.
Nolan, M.J.	Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.	O’Brien, Darragh.
O’Connor, Charlie.	O’Dea, Willie.
O’Donoghue, John.	O’Flynn, Noel.
O’Hanlon, Rory.	O’Keeffe, Batt.
O’Keeffe, Edward.	O’Rourke, Mary.
Power, Peter.	Power, Seán.
Roche, Dick.	Ryan, Eamon.
Sargent, Trevor.	Scanlon, Eamon.
Treacy, Noel.	Wallace, Mary.
White, Mary Alexandra.	Woods, Michael.

Níl
Bannon, James.	Broughan, Thomas P.
Bruton, Richard.	Burke, Ulick.
Burton, Joan.	Byrne, Catherine.
Clune, Deirdre.	Connaughton, Paul.
Coonan, Noel J.	Costello, Joe.
Coveney, Simon.	Crawford, Seymour.
Creed, Michael.	Creighton, Lucinda.
D’Arcy, Michael.	Deenihan, Jimmy.
Doherty, Pearse.	Doyle, Andrew.
Durkan, Bernard J.	English, Damien.
Feighan, Frank.	Ferris, Martin.
Flanagan, Charles.	Flanagan, Terence.
Gilmore, Eamon.	Grealish, Noel.
Hayes, Brian.	Hayes, Tom.
Higgins, Michael D.	Hogan, Phil.
Howlin, Brendan.	Kehoe, Paul.
Lynch, Ciarán.	Lynch, Kathleen.
McCormack, Pádraic.	McGinley, Dinny.
McGrath, Finian.	Mitchell, Olivia.
Naughten, Denis.	Neville, Dan.
Noonan, Michael.	Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.	O’Donnell, Kieran.
O’Dowd, Fergus.	O’Keeffe, Jim.
O’Mahony, John.	O’Shea, Brian.
O’Sullivan, Jan.	O’Sullivan, Maureen.
Penrose, Willie.	Perry, John.
Quinn, Ruairí.	Rabbitte, Pat.
Reilly, James.	Ring, Michael.
Shatter, Alan.	Sheahan, Tom.
Sheehan, P.J.	Sherlock, Seán.
Shortall, Róisín.	Stagg, Emmet.
Stanton, David.	Timmins, Billy.
Tuffy, Joanna.	Upton, Mary.
Varadkar, Leo.	Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies John Cregan and John Curran; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the proposal that the Dáil sit tomorrow agreed to?

Deputy James Reilly:    I will respond to the comments the Tánaiste made after a note was passed to her by the Minister for Health and Children. I am proud of my record as a negotiator.

(Interruptions).

Deputy James Reilly:    The current Minister may not have been Minister for Health and Children at the time but I doubt she would have done any better in the negotiations given her propensity for lavish travel and painting her nails. We only need to consider her record, for example, her failure to implement redundancies, which costs the country €200 million per annum, and to address drugs reference pricing, which costs another couple of hundred million each year.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We are discussing arrangements for sitting tomorrow.

Deputy James Reilly:    The country could have done with a few real negotiators a couple of weeks ago when we were talking to the IMF.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Michael Ring:    We were sold out.

Deputy Paul Kehoe:    As the Minister, Deputy Batt O’Keeffe, stated, they were playing poker.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Reilly is in possession. I ask for silence, please.

Deputy Dick Roche:    Let the greedy doctor speak.

Deputy James Reilly:    I oppose the taking of the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill tomorrow in light of what today’s newspapers report concerning €40 million of bonuses to bankers. The definition of a bonus is an additional payment for some form of extra achievement. What in the name of God have the banks achieved in recent years? Would AIB have been able to pay bonuses if taxpayers had not bailed out and recapitalised it? Why was [595]this issue not negotiated and sorted out when the bank bailout was being given and the banks’ loans were being guaranteed?

Deputy Brian Lenihan:    We have a place called the High Court.

Deputy James Reilly:    The Government could have prevented the outcome of the case.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    It is totally insane.

Deputy James Reilly:    We still do not have clarity on the universal social charge. Will it apply to pensioners and medical card holders? We need an answer to that question.

The Government has lost its moral compass. As I pointed out, blind people will no longer have the independence to go to the shop because they cannot afford to feed their dog, whereas bankers will be given bonuses to go to the Caribbean. What type of Government does that to people? This decision has caused outrage, anger and shock and it is wrong.

Deputy Dick Roche:    That sounds a little like the Deputy’s fees.

Deputy James Reilly:    The Minister for Finance must stop using the law to protect bankers. He should use it to sort them out. I have a proposal for him. Let him show leadership by taxing at 99% the bankers’ bonuses in the emergency legislation to come before the House tomorrow.

A Deputy:  What do Government Deputies have to say to that?

Deputy Noel J. Coonan:    They are dumbfounded.

  11 o’clock

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    On the proposal to deal with the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill, the measure to cut the minimum wage is at the end of the legislation. As Deputy Penrose pointed out yesterday, the arrangements the Government proposes for the taking of the Bill will mean, in practice, that it is unlikely the Dáil will have an opportunity to specifically address the cut in the minimum wage. Among the matters which will not receive the attention they deserve under the proposed arrangements is the statement by the Minister for Finance on budget day that those on the new reduced minimum wage will not be brought into the tax net. That is not true.

An Ceann Comhairle:    While Deputies may make a brief comment on the Order of Business, they cannot engage in debate. Deputy Gilmore is provoking debate.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I am pointing out the reason we need more time to debate the Bill. These are the types of issues the House needs to be debate but we will not have an opportunity to do so. The Minister for Finance stated that those on the new national minimum wage will not be brought into the tax net. On page C30 of the budgetary documentation, we are informed that the universal social charge, which will apply to the national minimum wage, is a tax.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We cannot debate the matter on the Order of Business.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    People on the minimum wage will be brought into the tax net. The effect of what the Government is doing is to reduce by €40 per week the earnings of a person working 40 hours per week and to take from these earnings €8.42 on the universal social charge. This will bring the national minimum wage for someone working 40 hours per week to below €300 per week, specifically to €297.

[596]Deputy Róisín Shortall:    Shame.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Order of Business provides for a brief statement. The Deputy is promoting debate on a Bill which will be discussed later.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    Deputy Gilmore should add in the family income supplement.

Deputy Joan Burton:    Very few small employers participate in that scheme.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    The measures mean that someone working 40 hours per week on the new national minimum wage will receive less than the average bonus being paid to AIB executives, which is being allowed by the Government.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    That was done by a High Court decision.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    The arrangements before us have been made because the Government wants to kill debate on a measure that will take almost €50 per week from people on the national minimum wage.

Deputy Róisín Shortall:    On a point of order, it has been brought to the attention of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, that he misled the House in his Budget Statement on Tuesday. I offer him an opportunity to correct the record.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Shortall must resume her seat.

Deputy Róisín Shortall:    He must now correct——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Resume your seat, please. I call an Teachta Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin.

Deputy Róisín Shortall:    A Cheann Comhairle, excuse me——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, I have called an Teachta Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin.

Deputy Róisín Shortall:    This is a point of order. The Minister for Finance——

An Ceann Comhairle:    It is not a point of order. The Deputy can make all those points during the budget debate.

Deputy Róisín Shortall:    ——made a mistake on the Order of Business, misled the House about the budget——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, resume your seat, please, or leave the House.

Deputy Róisín Shortall:    ——and must now correct the record.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, I shall ask you to leave the House.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    Deputy Shortall is making an absolutely valid point which I support. The Sinn Féin Deputies absolutely object to the guillotining of this Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill. What a grand name. If ever there was a misnomer for a compendium piece of legislation, this is it. This is an enabling Bill to reduce the minimum wage. Calling it a €1 reduction, or going from €8.65 to €7.65, does not seem to hit quite the same note, but let us make no mistake about it — this will be at least €40 per week from the pockets of families who are depending on the basic standard of income. It is an [597]absolutely disgraceful proposition that will cause untold harm to those families who are trying to cope at that level.

An Ceann Comhairle:    We cannot debate the matter on the Order of Business in this manner. I will agree to a reference but not to a debate.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The second reason I object is that the Bill facilitates a capping of the salaries for higher public servants. However, the cap is far too high at €250,000. Let us face reality here. A quarter of a million euro is too much in these circumstances——

An Ceann Comhairle:    That point can be made during the debate.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The Government has not gone far enough. These are the critical points that are wrong with the entire compendium proposal, the so-called “in the public interest” Bill. I have never heard anything as ludicrously described as this piece of legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy, resume your seat. I am putting the question.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    We will not support it under any circumstances.

Question put: “That the proposal for the Dáil sitting tomorrow be agreed to.”

The Dáil divided: Tá, 78; Níl, 69.

Tá
Ahern, Bertie.	Ahern, Dermot.
Ahern, Michael.	Ahern, Noel.
Andrews, Barry.	Andrews, Chris.
Ardagh, Seán.	Aylward, Bobby.
Behan, Joe.	Blaney, Niall.
Brady, Áine.	Brady, Cyprian.
Brady, Johnny.	Browne, John.
Byrne, Thomas.	Calleary, Dara.
Carey, Pat.	Collins, Niall.
Conlon, Margaret.	Connick, Seán.
Coughlan, Mary.	Cregan, John.
Curran, John.	Dempsey, Noel.
Devins, Jimmy.	Dooley, Timmy.
Fahey, Frank.	Finneran, Michael.
Fitzpatrick, Michael.	Fleming, Seán.
Flynn, Beverley.	Gogarty, Paul.
Gormley, John.	Hanafin, Mary.
Harney, Mary.	Haughey, Seán.
Healy-Rae, Jackie.	Hoctor, Máire.
Kelleher, Billy.	Kelly, Peter.
Kennedy, Michael.	Killeen, Tony.
Kitt, Michael P.	Kitt, Tom.
Lenihan, Brian.	Lenihan, Conor.
Lowry, Michael.	McEllistrim, Thomas.
McGrath, Mattie.	McGrath, Michael.
McGuinness, John.	Mansergh, Martin.
Martin, Micheál.	Moloney, John.
Moynihan, Michael.	Mulcahy, Michael.
Nolan, M.J.	Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.	O’Brien, Darragh.
O’Connor, Charlie.	O’Dea, Willie.
O’Donoghue, John.	O’Flynn, Noel.
O’Hanlon, Rory.	O’Keeffe, Batt.
O’Keeffe, Edward.	O’Rourke, Mary.
Power, Peter.	Power, Seán.
Roche, Dick.	Ryan, Eamon.
Sargent, Trevor.	Scanlon, Eamon.
Treacy, Noel.	Wallace, Mary.
White, Mary Alexandra.	Woods, Michael.

Níl
Bannon, James.	Broughan, Thomas P.
Bruton, Richard.	Burke, Ulick.
Burton, Joan.	Byrne, Catherine.
Clune, Deirdre.	Connaughton, Paul.
Coonan, Noel J.	Costello, Joe.
Coveney, Simon.	Crawford, Seymour.
Creighton, Lucinda.	D’Arcy, Michael.
Deasy, John.	Deenihan, Jimmy.
Doherty, Pearse.	Doyle, Andrew.
Durkan, Bernard J.	English, Damien.
Feighan, Frank.	Ferris, Martin.
Flanagan, Charles.	Flanagan, Terence.
Gilmore, Eamon.	Grealish, Noel.
Hayes, Brian.	Hayes, Tom.
Higgins, Michael D.	Hogan, Phil.
Howlin, Brendan.	Kehoe, Paul.
Lynch, Ciarán.	Lynch, Kathleen.
McCormack, Pádraic.	McEntee, Shane.
McGinley, Dinny.	McGrath, Finian.
Mitchell, Olivia.	Naughten, Denis.
Neville, Dan.	Noonan, Michael.
Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.	Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
O’Donnell, Kieran.	O’Dowd, Fergus.
O’Keeffe, Jim.	O’Mahony, John.
O’Shea, Brian.	O’Sullivan, Jan.
O’Sullivan, Maureen.	Penrose, Willie.
Perry, John.	Quinn, Ruairí.
Rabbitte, Pat.	Reilly, James.
Ring, Michael.	Shatter, Alan.
Sheahan, Tom.	Sheehan, P.J.
Sherlock, Seán.	Shortall, Róisín.
Stagg, Emmet.	Stanton, David.
Timmins, Billy.	Tuffy, Joanna.
Upton, Mary.	Varadkar, Leo.
Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies John Cregan and John Curran; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy James Reilly on the Order of Business.

Deputy James Reilly:    I wish to inquire after a number of Bills. First, I wish to refer to the legislation coming before the House tomorrow. Given the savings that will be made from the reduction in the minimum wage amount to a mere €83 million in one year and that €40 million in bonuses are to be paid this year to bankers and €55 million was paid last year, which is an equivalent sum, will the Minister for Finance or the Tánaiste give an undertaking that these bonuses will be taxed at 99%? In the United States, President Obama taxed them at 90% and the Government here should show some leadership and go further. The people want that.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will have to approach the issue from a different angle.

Deputy James Reilly:    This is a burning issue for the people of this country. They have realised the trouble we are in and how we got here, despite the Government spin, namely, through lack [599]of regulation, political ill judgment and bankers being paid bonuses for achieving figures, not for achieving security for their bank or best outcomes for their clients. The Government has an opportunity to show some leadership, late in the day as it might be.

An Ceann Comhairle:    This is the Order of Business.

Deputy James Reilly:    Second, on the Order of Business, where stands the corporate donations legislation, the legislation on the lord mayor, which is going through the House at present, and the climate change Bill? These are all Bills which the Green Party, which is supporting the Government, is very keen to have passed and it is now making noises about delaying its promise of an election in January lest this legislation not be passed. It is clear the climate change Bill is one the Greens have been very slow to introduce but they could change the political climate by changing the Government.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is supposed to make just a brief intervention.

Deputy James Reilly:    Will the Tánaiste tell us the date of the next general election, rather than talking about 2011? As we all know, that would mean 24 December 2011 if she had her way. The people need to know that, and they need to know the Greens will keep their word this time — that they are going to stay green and not turn yellow yet again.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call the Tánaiste on promised legislation.

The Tánaiste:    The heads of the electoral (amendment) Bill have been agreed and approval has been given to draft. The Dublin mayor Bill is on Committee Stage, which will be taken next week. I believe the Minister is bringing the climate change Bill to finality for publication.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I wish to raise two matters. First, Deputy Shortall asked the Minister for Finance to correct the record of the House relating to the statement he made during his Budget Statement that people on the new national minimum wage would not be brought into the tax net. It is clear from the way in which the universal social charge is being applied that it is a tax and that as a result, people on the national minimum wage are being brought into the tax net. I ask the Tánaiste to address this. An opportunity should be given some time today for the Minister for Finance to correct the record of the House.

Second, we have been told that once the budget is through, the Green Party would leave Government and there would be a general election. This would mean that, apart from the financial legislation that arises out of the budget, no other legislation would be brought forward by this Government——

Deputy Paul Gogarty:    Correct.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    ——in the new year. Is that the case? Will the Tánaiste confirm what Deputy Gogarty is telling us, namely, that there will be no other legislation in the new year——

Deputy Paul Gogarty:    After the Finance Bill.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    ——and that the Green Party will be withdrawing from Government, as it had indicated, in January?

Deputy Paul Gogarty:    The Deputy should ask the Green Party. It is our decision.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    Will the real Tánaiste please stand up?

[600]Deputy Alan Shatter:    The Greens shoot themselves again.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputies, please.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I am trying to find out what is going on. I do not care who answers. The only thing I care about is that we can rely on the answer this time. We got an answer on 22 November that the Greens were going to pull out of Government and that there would be a general election in January. Is that still the case?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call the Tánaiste on promised legislation and promised business.

The Tánaiste:    On the issue of the Minister for Finance, it was clear the Minister was referring to the income tax net in his discussions. With regard to the legislation which Deputy Gilmore inquired about, the Taoiseach indicated that the post-budgetary legislation would be dealt with, at which stage he will decide when the election will take place.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    That is different.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    Arising from that, what are the arrangements for dealing with the Finance Bill?

The Tánaiste:    The Finance Bill will be taken when we resume after the recess. As the Taoiseach indicated, the proposal is that the House would resume a week earlier than previously expected and that once the Finance Bill is available, we will discuss it.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    I want——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Gilmore has had a very good innings.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore:    To clarify, when will the Finance Bill be published? When we come back at the beginning of January, will the Finance Bill be the first item of business the House will deal with?

Deputy Paul Gogarty:    If it is ready.

The Tánaiste:    We have to await the publication. I am not in a position to say when that will happen.

Deputy Emmet Stagg:    Deputy Gogarty said it would be ready.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    There is some confusion because two answers are being given by the coalition Government. The Minister is saying it is not yet ready. Deputy Gogarty has just told the House it is finished.

Deputy Paul Gogarty:    I said, “If it is ready”.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    If it is ready, then it is ready.

Deputy Paul Gogarty:    I said, “If it is ready”.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The Deputy said “It is ready”.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Let us not get weighed down. The Deputy should direct his inquiries to the Chair.

[601]Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    These are important points. We have enough confusion when the Government tends to speak una voce but here we have a duo in operation.

Deputy Paul Gogarty:    Too many loud bangs have affected Deputy Ó Caoláin’s hearing.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    Deputy Gogarty should not worry. The only old banger in here is the one he has been driving in the Green Party for years. It is just about clapped out.

With regard to the Tánaiste’s reply to the previous questioner, will the Finance Bill be before the Dáil on 12 January? Is that when we will address it? What is reason the Government intends running it forward to the beginning of the first week back? How quickly afterwards do the members of the Government intend to hand in their resignations in the park? What is the programme of legislation which the Government expects?

I notice that this morning a lobby has started again in regard to the climate change Bill, which I am happy to support. Is it the case that the Government is in disarray and the Green Party wants to see other legislation being forced through?

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is embellishing the inquiry.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    If the Tánaiste was a little more forthcoming in her replies, we would have a better idea what exactly is lying ahead of us so the Opposition could properly prepare, which we are entitled to do.

An Ceann Comhairle:    If the Deputy leaves the matter there, we will inquire.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    Will the climate change Bill be taken before this Dáil concludes, that is, before the 30th Dáil rises and Members go before the people? Will the debate on the Finance Bill start as of 12 January?

The Tánaiste:    I indicated previously that the date of publication of the Finance Bill is something I do not have at present because the Department and the Minister are working on it, which takes a considerable amount of time and deliberation. With regard to the legislation for the next session of the Dáil, the Chief Whip will bring that forward in the normal way.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The Tánaiste says it takes all this time but it took her very little time to ram forward the Social Welfare Bill and all that entails——

An Ceann Comhairle:    Please, Deputy. An answer has been provided to the Deputy on the inquiry. We need to move on.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    ——and the so-called Public Interest Bill — God forgive the phrase — that is to be introduced later this evening. It does not wear. Nobody is buying that.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Please, Deputy.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    It is not that inordinate time was required.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will have to find another way to raise this matter.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The Government, when it wants to ram something through, has been able to bring forward legislative measures, and this——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy is holding up the Order of Business. I want to call Deputy Shatter.

[602]Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:    The answer is absolutely unacceptable.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    I have two questions. On the issue that has just been raised — promised legislation is an important matter — it was announced earlier this week by the Taoiseach that the Dáil will return a week early, as Fine Gael had been seeking, presumably on 12 January. Does the Tánaiste know why it is returning a week early? It was assumed it was returning a week early to take the finance Bill. If we are returning a week early and not taking the finance Bill, is there anyone in government who can tell us why we are returning a week early? Is Deputy Gogarty the assistant Tánaiste? Can he inform the House? That is the first question.

Deputy Noel Dempsey:    We are returning a week early because Fine Gael asked for it. It is just to oblige the Deputy.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    My second question relates to a very serious matter. On the night on which the budget was being debated in this House, the Department of Justice and Law Reform published a very extensive and comprehensive report by Judge Michael Reilly, the Inspector of Prisons, into catastrophic failures in every aspect of the justice system for which the Minister is responsible that resulted in the death of a Mr. Noel Keegan on 31 December 2009. That report is a matter of substantial——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy will have to find another way to pursue this matter. He cannot do so on the Order of Business.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    That report is a matter of substantial public concern. Will Dáil time be made available to debate it? I suggest to the Tánaiste that the Dáil sit from 1 p.m. to 3 p.m. tomorrow with the agreement of the Whips to facilitate the Minister making a statement to the House on the report and Members of the House in addressing the issues in that report. The essential issue that arose from the report is that Mr. Keegan lost his life——

An Ceann Comhairle:    A brief inquiry.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    ——due to the failure of the State to ensure someone convicted to four years’ imprisonment was actually required to serve that sentence. It is extraordinary.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is this promised business? This is the Order of Business. The Deputy will have to find another way to inquire about the matter.

Deputy Alan Shatter:    We have debated in this House reports on the catastrophic systemic failures within the child care services. This is the equivalent within our justice service. At the very least, the Keegan family, who have been seriously wronged and bereaved, are entitled to have the report considered by Members of this House this week. I ask that the Minister, on behalf of the State, apologise in this House on behalf of the State to the family for the tragedy that has befallen it.

The Tánaiste:    To be fair to the Deputy, the issues that have arisen on foot of the report are very serious. When this matter arose, the Minister for Justice and Law Reform advised his Opposition colleagues that he was initiating an investigation arising from a very regrettable incident that took place. I join the Minister in sympathising with the family of the late Mr. Noel Keegan. Perhaps the Whips will be in a position to facilitate a discussion on the report.

Deputy Timmy Dooley:    Is there proposed amending legislation dealing with NAMA? As the Tánaiste will be aware, NAMA has opposed a number of high-profile examinerships recently. An example pertains to the Whelans Group, in respect of which NAMA sought to oppose the [603]examinership as proposed. This has an impact on jobs, which are being lost. Is it possible to review the legislation and look to the broader responsibility NAMA should have for the taxpayer? While its initial remit clearly pertains to the taxpayer in terms of returning funds that are owed, there is a broader consideration in terms of the protection of jobs. Is there potential to review the legislation as part of the current programme of legislative measures?

The Tánaiste:    I am not aware of any review that is to take place of NAMA legislation. Perhaps I will advise the Minister for Finance of the issues that have arisen and ask him to revert to the Deputy.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan:    Yesterday the HSE clarified that 199 children died in care in the ten years up to April 2010. Committee Stage of the Child Care (Amendment) Bill is complete and it is ready to proceed to Report Stage. Its objective is partly to protect children in care and to implement some of the recommendations of the Ryan report. I want clear assurance from the Tánaiste, on behalf of the Government, that this legislation will be prioritised over the vanity projects of the Green Party, including the provision of another layer of bureaucracy in the Dublin area. I want assurance from the party that really leads the Government, not the Green Party. The legislation is about protecting children in care and is extremely important. I want to be absolutely sure that the issue of children in danger of dying in care — there have been 199 deaths in the past ten years — will be prioritised over other issues before the dissolution of this Dáil.

The Tánaiste:    The Government will be more than happy to facilitate that legislation as a matter of urgency, perhaps on our return after Christmas. I believe it is on Report Stage.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan:    It should be taken before anything else.

The Tánaiste:    It will be done. It is important.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan:    Some time ago, the Taoiseach promised publicly in The Irish Field that he would introduce legislation regarding the horse and greyhound fund in so far as it relates to online and off-course betting. It was promised that it would be introduced before Christmas and is very urgent. Will the Tánaiste indicate whether it will be published before Christmas? If not, will it be published in January?

The Tánaiste:    It will be introduced in the finance Bill, which will be taken after Christmas. I believe there is parallel legislation under the Betting Act to be introduced also.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan:    Will it be included with the finance Bill?

The Tánaiste:    Yes.

Deputy Seymour Crawford:    In light of the fact that the Green Party is trying to bring forward some of its pet legislation, such as that to establish a Dublin lord mayor, does the Tánaiste’s party not regard it as important to bring forward the legal costs Bill to deal with the anomaly whereby those in the legal field are not being affected by the cutbacks affecting everybody else?

In light of all the problems associated with young people misbehaving because of excessive drinking, including in housing estates, for example, can the sale of alcohol Bill be dealt with to control the sale and abuse of alcohol?

The Tánaiste:    The legal costs Bill has not yet been drafted. With regard to the sale of alcohol Bill, in normal circumstances that would be taken in the next session.

[604]Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    In view of the fact that the recent international student assessment shows literacy levels in Ireland have dropped catastrophically; that the biggest drop in literacy in any country since 2000 has been in Ireland; and that the same survey shows that one in six of our students has low literacy and that almost one in four males is not functionally literate, does the Tánaiste not agree that there is a need for a radical shake-up in education policy in terms of literacy resources given to primary and lower level secondary schools?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Has the Deputy an inquiry for the Tánaiste?

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    Does the Tánaiste agree that the greatest failure of all is that we will not be able to compete for new jobs in the new economy considering that the people who scored highest in the international assessment of literacy and other educational attainments are from China and the Far East, and that we in Ireland are falling behind very significantly? What is the Tánaiste doing about it? Will she introduce a plan before the dissolution of this Dáil to address this very serious issue?

In regard to legislation on the student support grant coming before the House next Thursday, in respect of which legislation we in the Opposition benches will be assisting, will the Tánaiste clarify whether existing students who have the highest grants on the grounds that they live farthest from their educational institutions will lose those grants if they live within the new——

An Ceann Comhairle:    We cannot allow that inquiry on the Order of Business. It is inappropriate.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    This is very serious. Can I explain the reason the question is appropriate?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I am sure it is important.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    It is because 25,000 students——

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy should submit the matter for the Adjournment and we will consider it.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    ——are estimated to lose up to €2,000 per household as a result of the proposals.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy O’Dowd, this is the Order of Business.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    I ask that the Minister clarify that by next Thursday. Her Department could not provide clarity on that yesterday within one hour, and I appreciate it was one hour. I was trying to get clarity on this matter but I could not get any response from the Minister’s Department during that period of time, which I found unacceptable, having telephoned her office and the office of the Secretary General. That is not good enough.

An Ceann Comhairle:    The Deputy cannot expect the Tánaiste or anybody else to have that detail on the Order of Business.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:    She knows all about it. They are avoiding the issue.

The Tánaiste:    On the issue of PISA, I have noted what the Opposition spokespersons had to say on the matter. I introduced new educational measures with regard to our teaching standards, our entry requirements into teaching, an extension of the degree programme, BEd, to a four year programme, greater interventions by the inspectorate, a new probation service [605]and I have instructed that in our curriculum development the emphasis now must be on literacy and numeracy. That education policy was announced by me two weeks ago. We will have an opportunity on Thursday for a considerable amount of discussion on educational matters through the Student Support Bill, and also parliamentary questions, at which stage I will be more than happy to give further information to the Deputy.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh:    Cathain ata sé i gceist an Bille um Údarás na Gaeltachta a fhoilsiú? An mbeidh sé rite roimh dheireadh na Dála seo? An mbeimid in ann toghchán Údarás na Gaeltachta a shocrú ar an lá céanna leis an olltoghchán? An bhfuil sé i gceist aon Bhillí eile a bhaineann leis an nGaeilge nó leis an straitéis, atá glactha ag an Rialtas le roinnt seachtainí anuas, a chur chun cinn?

The Tánaiste:    Níl an plean á fhoilsiú go hoifigiúil go fóill. Tá sé réidh. Sílim go bhfoilseoidh an t-Aire é roimh an Nollaig. Ag éirí as na moltaí atá sa straitéis 20 bliain, caithfear Bille úr a chur os comhair an Tí chun athstruchtúrú a dhéanamh ar Údarás na Gaeltachta.

Deputy Róisín Shortall:    In recent days we have seen the eventual closing of the trial of Tony Walsh and his conviction on a number of charges of child sexual abuse. Will the Tánaiste confirm that the Minister for Justice and Law Reform is now moving to provide for the publication of that section of the Murphy report which had previously been redacted pending the outcome of the trial? When can we expect to see that report published in full?

The Tánaiste:    I have been advised that under the legislation that is entirely a matter for the High Court.

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