Order of Business

Thursday, 23 June 2011

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 736 No. 3

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The Tánaiste: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  It is proposed to take No. 15a, Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2011 — motion to instruct the committee; and No. 19, Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2011 — Committee and Remaining Stages. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 4.45 p.m. and business shall be interrupted [460]on the conclusion of Question Time, which shall be taken for 75 minutes on the conclusion of No. 19, and in the event of a private notice question being allowed, it shall be taken after 45 minutes and the order shall not resume thereafter; No. 15a shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 65 minutes, with speeches being confined to the Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, who may share their time and whose speeches shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, and the Minister or Minister of State being called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and the Committee and Remaining Stages of No. 19 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 5 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 4.45 p.m. today agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 15a agreed?

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  It is not agreed. The Government had plenty of time to prepare the Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2011. The idea that amendments which require a Second Stage debate have to be introduced at this stage is objectionable. I object in principle to what is going on here. If we call a vote, I do not doubt that the Government will steamroll its way through. We would use valuable time that the Opposition needs to tease out this Bill with the Government on the floor of the House. While I object to this legislation being taken in this way, I will not call a vote on the matter because I do not want to waste valuable time that could be used to debate the Bill. The Government is steamrolling everything through, despite its promises of Dáil reform.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  Brilliant.

The Tánaiste: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  The Minister with responsibility for public expenditure and reform has briefed the Opposition spokespersons on these amendments. The two amendments relate to matters that were outside the terms of the original Bill. One of the amendments relates to how some NTMA staff in the Department of Finance are affected by the splitting of the Department. The other amendment clarifies the functions of the Revenue Commissioners and gives them more independence in certain areas. I do not think there is any major issue in relation to those matters.

Question, “That the proposal for dealing with No. 15a be agreed to”, put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Is the proposal for dealing with No. 19 agreed?

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  No. I have the same objection in this case. It is the same problem. We were told there would be no guillotines. We were told extra sitting days would be provided for in order that matters could be teased out.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer: Information on Jerry Buttimer  Zoom on Jerry Buttimer  Where were the Deputy and his colleagues yesterday?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  I do not need Deputy Buttimer’s help. Every morning it is the same.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  If there is no guillotine——

[461]An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  I do not need it.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer: Information on Jerry Buttimer  Zoom on Jerry Buttimer  Where were they yesterday?

Deputy Dara Calleary: Information on Dara Calleary  Zoom on Dara Calleary  We were bored listening to the Deputy.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  It is in principle objectionable——

Deputy Jerry Buttimer: Information on Jerry Buttimer  Zoom on Jerry Buttimer  They were missing in action.

Deputy Barry Cowen: Information on Barry Cowen  Zoom on Barry Cowen  Take a break.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  ——that the Opposition will not have time between the Committee and Report Stage debates on this Bill. I believe Report Stage should be taken next week. Will the Tánaiste agree to Committee Stage being taken today and a gap being provided for before Report Stage is taken next week? Having waited more than 100 days to get this far, I cannot understand why another four or five days would make a material difference. Why can we not provide for full and open debates and appropriate gaps between the various legislative stages, which is what the Government said it would do when it was in Opposition?

Deputy Pearse Doherty: Information on Pearse Doherty  Zoom on Pearse Doherty  We oppose the imposition of a guillotine on this Bill, just as we have done previously. Yesterday, we opposed in principle the proposal to impose a guillotine on the Finance (No. 3) Bill 2011. We saw what happened at the end of that debate.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  There was no one there.

Deputy Pearse Doherty: Information on Pearse Doherty  Zoom on Pearse Doherty  When legislation is supported by the House, there is no need for Deputies to continue to waffle about it. There was no need to provide for a guillotine on yesterday’s Order of Business. Similarly, we oppose in principle the imposition of a guillotine on this significant Bill. The Department and the Minister do not know the full outworking of the separation of the various Departments. We will not be able to have a proper discussion on the Committee Stage amendments that have been tabled. The debate is being stifled. It is not a good principle. The Government gave a commitment not to impose guillotines. Sinn Féin opposes the imposition of guillotines. This is happening far too often. The Government is introducing guillotine after guillotine on debates. In some cases, no guillotine is required. It is wrong to ask us to conclude our debate on this legislation at 5 p.m. There is no reason we cannot stay here later, if required, to deal with the Committee Stage amendments that have been tabled. We should take Report Stage at a later date. That would give us time for the necessary consideration of the information the Minister will provide in response to our queries later today.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte: Information on Pat Rabbitte  Zoom on Pat Rabbitte  Deputy Doherty will be in Aughnacloy by then.

The Tánaiste: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  One of the issues raised most frequently by the Opposition with the Government on legislation was when the Department of public expenditure and reform would be formally established and the legislation introduced. Several Deputies on the Opposition benches have been asking us for some time to have this Department formally established and the legislation passed so that they could put questions to the Minister for public expenditure and reform and have the normal accountability for it.

This morning we have the legislation before the House and the Opposition asks us to delay it. Deputy Ó Cuív does not want it concluded until next week. This is legislation that we were told he wanted to do quickly.

[462]Deputy Timmy Dooley: Information on Tim Dooley  Zoom on Tim Dooley  We waited long enough and we are prepared to wait another day or two to get it right.

The Tánaiste: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  There is plenty of time for this Bill to be fully debated between now and 5 o’clock this evening.

Deputy Jonathan O’Brien: Information on Jonathan O'Brien  Zoom on Jonathan O'Brien  If there is plenty of time, why the need for a guillotine? If there is plenty of time, one does not ask for a guillotine.

The Tánaiste: Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  The period being allocated for debate of this one Department is far in excess of the period devoted to the establishment of the Government as a whole.

Deputy Timmy Dooley: Information on Tim Dooley  Zoom on Tim Dooley  That speaks volumes.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  I am now putting the question.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  A Cheann Comhairle——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Sorry, there is no reply. Please resume your seat. You are not entitled to.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  ——the idea of a Committee and the Fourth Stage of a Bill is to allow for reflection between the two Stages of a Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Please resume your seat. You know quite well there is no entitlement to a reply. You had your go, now we put the question.

Question put: “That the proposal for dealing with No. 19, Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2011 — Committee and Remaining Stages, be agreed to.”

The Dáil divided: Tá, 81; Níl, 39.

Information on James Bannon  Zoom on James Bannon  Bannon, James. Information on Tom Barry  Zoom on Tom Barry  Barry, Tom.
Information on Pat Breen  Zoom on Pat Breen  Breen, Pat. Information on Thomas P. Broughan  Zoom on Thomas P. Broughan  Broughan, Thomas P.
Information on Richard Bruton  Zoom on Richard Bruton  Bruton, Richard. Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Burton, Joan.
Information on Jerry Buttimer  Zoom on Jerry Buttimer  Buttimer, Jerry. Information on Catherine Byrne  Zoom on Catherine Byrne  Byrne, Catherine.
Information on Ciaran Cannon  Zoom on Ciaran Cannon  Cannon, Ciarán. Information on Joe Carey  Zoom on Joe Carey  Carey, Joe.
Information on Paudie Coffey  Zoom on Paudie Coffey  Coffey, Paudie. Information on Michael Conaghan  Zoom on Michael Conaghan  Conaghan, Michael.
Information on Paul Connaughton  Zoom on Paul Connaughton  Connaughton, Paul J. Information on Ciara Conway  Zoom on Ciara Conway  Conway, Ciara.
Information on Noel Coonan  Zoom on Noel Coonan  Coonan, Noel. Information on Marcella MarcellaCorcoran Kennedy  Zoom on Marcella MarcellaCorcoran Kennedy  Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
Information on Joe Costello  Zoom on Joe Costello  Costello, Joe. Information on Simon Coveney  Zoom on Simon Coveney  Coveney, Simon.
Information on Jim Daly  Zoom on Jim Daly  Daly, Jim. Information on John Deasy  Zoom on John Deasy  Deasy, John.
Information on Patrick Deering  Zoom on Patrick Deering  Deering, Pat. Information on Regina Doherty  Zoom on Regina Doherty  Doherty, Regina.
Information on Paschal Donohoe  Zoom on Paschal Donohoe  Donohoe, Paschal. Information on Robert Dowds  Zoom on Robert Dowds  Dowds, Robert.
Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  Durkan, Bernard J. Information on Alan Farrell  Zoom on Alan Farrell  Farrell, Alan.
Information on Frank Feighan  Zoom on Frank Feighan  Feighan, Frank. Information on Anne Ferris  Zoom on Anne Ferris  Ferris, Anne.
Information on Frances Fitzgerald  Zoom on Frances Fitzgerald  Fitzgerald, Frances. Information on Peter Fitzpatrick  Zoom on Peter Fitzpatrick  Fitzpatrick, Peter.
Information on Terence Flanagan  Zoom on Terence Flanagan  Flanagan, Terence. Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Gilmore, Eamon.
Information on Brendan Griffin  Zoom on Brendan Griffin  Griffin, Brendan. Information on Dominic Hannigan  Zoom on Dominic Hannigan  Hannigan, Dominic.
Information on Noel Harrington  Zoom on Noel Harrington  Harrington, Noel. Information on Simon Harris  Zoom on Simon Harris  Harris, Simon.
Information on Brian Hayes  Zoom on Brian Hayes  Hayes, Brian. Information on Tom Hayes  Zoom on Tom Hayes  Hayes, Tom.
Information on Philip Hogan  Zoom on Philip Hogan  Hogan, Phil. Information on Brendan Howlin  Zoom on Brendan Howlin  Howlin, Brendan.
Information on Kevin Humphreys  Zoom on Kevin Humphreys  Humphreys, Kevin. Information on Derek Keating  Zoom on Derek Keating  Keating, Derek.
Information on Colm Keaveney  Zoom on Colm Keaveney  Keaveney, Colm. Information on Seán Kenny  Zoom on Seán Kenny  Kenny, Seán.
Information on Seán Kyne  Zoom on Seán Kyne  Kyne, Seán. Information on Anthony Lawlor  Zoom on Anthony Lawlor  Lawlor, Anthony.
Information on Ciaran Lynch  Zoom on Ciaran Lynch  Lynch, Ciarán. Information on John Lyons  Zoom on John Lyons  Lyons, John.
Information on Michael McCarthy  Zoom on Michael McCarthy  McCarthy, Michael. Information on Nicky McFadden  Zoom on Nicky McFadden  McFadden, Nicky.
Information on Dinny McGinley  Zoom on Dinny McGinley  McGinley, Dinny. Information on Joe McHugh  Zoom on Joe McHugh  McHugh, Joe.
Information on Tony McLoughlin  Zoom on Tony McLoughlin  McLoughlin, Tony. Information on Eamonn Maloney  Zoom on Eamonn Maloney  Maloney, Eamonn.
Information on Peter Mathews  Zoom on Peter Mathews  Mathews, Peter. Information on Olivia Mitchell  Zoom on Olivia Mitchell  Mitchell, Olivia.
Information on Michelle Mulherin  Zoom on Michelle Mulherin  Mulherin, Michelle. Information on Dara Murphy  Zoom on Dara Murphy  Murphy, Dara.
Information on Eoghan Murphy  Zoom on Eoghan Murphy  Murphy, Eoghan. Information on Gerald Nash  Zoom on Gerald Nash  Nash, Gerald.
Information on Denis Naughten  Zoom on Denis Naughten  Naughten, Denis. Information on Dan Neville  Zoom on Dan Neville  Neville, Dan.
Information on Kieran O'Donnell  Zoom on Kieran O'Donnell  O’Donnell, Kieran. Information on Fergus O'Dowd  Zoom on Fergus O'Dowd  O’Dowd, Fergus.
Information on John O'Mahony  Zoom on John O'Mahony  O’Mahony, John. Information on John Perry  Zoom on John Perry  Perry, John.
Information on Ann Phelan  Zoom on Ann Phelan  Phelan, Ann. Information on John Paul Phelan  Zoom on John Paul Phelan  Phelan, John Paul.
Information on Ruairí Quinn  Zoom on Ruairí Quinn  Quinn, Ruairí. Information on Pat Rabbitte  Zoom on Pat Rabbitte  Rabbitte, Pat.
Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  Reilly, James. Information on Michael Ring  Zoom on Michael Ring  Ring, Michael.
Information on Brendan Ryan  Zoom on Brendan Ryan  Ryan, Brendan. Information on Alan Shatter  Zoom on Alan Shatter  Shatter, Alan.
Information on Arthur Spring  Zoom on Arthur Spring  Spring, Arthur. Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  Stagg, Emmet.
Information on Billy Timmins  Zoom on Billy Timmins  Timmins, Billy. Information on Joanna Tuffy  Zoom on Joanna Tuffy  Tuffy, Joanna.
Information on Leo Varadkar  Zoom on Leo Varadkar  Varadkar, Leo. Information on Jack Wall  Zoom on Jack Wall  Wall, Jack.
Information on Alex White  Zoom on Alex White  White, Alex.  


Níl
Information on Gerry Adams  Zoom on Gerry Adams  Adams, Gerry. Information on John Browne  Zoom on John Browne  Browne, John.
Information on Dara Calleary  Zoom on Dara Calleary  Calleary, Dara. Information on Joan Collins  Zoom on Joan Collins  Collins, Joan.
Information on Michael Colreavy  Zoom on Michael Colreavy  Colreavy, Michael. Information on Barry Cowen  Zoom on Barry Cowen  Cowen, Barry.
Information on Sean Crowe  Zoom on Sean Crowe  Crowe, Seán. Information on Pearse Doherty  Zoom on Pearse Doherty  Doherty, Pearse.
Information on Tim Dooley  Zoom on Tim Dooley  Dooley, Timmy. Information on Dessie Ellis  Zoom on Dessie Ellis  Ellis, Dessie.
Information on Martin Ferris  Zoom on Martin Ferris  Ferris, Martin. Information on Luke 'Ming' Flanagan  Zoom on Luke 'Ming' Flanagan  Flanagan, Luke ‘Ming’.
Information on Seán Fleming  Zoom on Seán Fleming  Fleming, Sean. Information on Tom Fleming  Zoom on Tom Fleming  Fleming, Tom.
Information on Noel Grealish  Zoom on Noel Grealish  Grealish, Noel. Information on Seamus Healy  Zoom on Seamus Healy  Healy, Seamus.
Information on Billy Kelleher  Zoom on Billy Kelleher  Kelleher, Billy. Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Kirk, Seamus.
Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Kitt, Michael P. Information on Pádraig MacLochlainn  Zoom on Pádraig MacLochlainn  Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
Information on Mary Lou McDonald  Zoom on Mary Lou McDonald  McDonald, Mary Lou. Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  McGrath, Mattie.
Information on Michael McGrath  Zoom on Michael McGrath  McGrath, Michael. Information on John McGuinness  Zoom on John McGuinness  McGuinness, John.
Information on Sandra McLellan  Zoom on Sandra McLellan  McLellan, Sandra. Information on Michael Moynihan  Zoom on Michael Moynihan  Moynihan, Michael.
Information on Catherine Murphy  Zoom on Catherine Murphy  Murphy, Catherine. Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  Ó Cuív, Éamon. Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  Ó Snodaigh, Aengus. Information on Jonathan O'Brien  Zoom on Jonathan O'Brien  O’Brien, Jonathan.
Information on Maureen O'Sullivan  Zoom on Maureen O'Sullivan  O’Sullivan, Maureen. Information on Shane Peter Nathaniel Ross  Zoom on Shane Peter Nathaniel Ross  Ross, Shane.
Information on Brendan Smith  Zoom on Brendan Smith  Smith, Brendan. Information on Brian Stanley  Zoom on Brian Stanley  Stanley, Brian.
Information on Peadar Tóibín  Zoom on Peadar Tóibín  Tóibín, Peadar. Information on Robert Troy  Zoom on Robert Troy  Troy, Robert.
Information on Mick Wallace  Zoom on Mick Wallace  Wallace, Mick.  

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Joe Carey; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.

Question declared carried.


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