Order of Business Tuesday, 27 September 2011

Dáil Éireann Debate Vol. 741 No. 3 Page of 436

The Taoiseach:    It is proposed to take No. 10, Supplementary Estimate for Public Services [Vote 42] (back from committee); No. 10a, motion re Supplementary Statement of Expenditure for Houses of the Oireachtas; No. 11, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of Ireland’s participation in an EDA category A project on chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear protection and an EDA category B project on maritime surveillance; and No. 1, Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2011 [Seanad] — Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn on the adjournment of Private Members’ business which shall be No. 26 — motion re employment and the national internship scheme, which shall take place on the conclusion of the opening speeches of No. 1 or at 7.30 p.m. whichever is the later, and adjourn after 90 minutes; Nos. 10 and 10a shall be decided without debate and any divisions demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; the proceedings on No. 11 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 25 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the speeches shall be confined to a Minister or Minister of State and to the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, who may share their time, and which shall not exceed five minutes in each case, and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; andthe Second Stage of No. 1 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 6 p.m. tomorrow and the following arrangements shall apply: the opening speech of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, Members may share time and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes.

An Ceann Comhairle:    There are four proposals to be put to the House. First, is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight agreed to? Agreed.

Second, is the proposal for dealing with No. 10, Supplementary Estimate for Public Services [Vote 42] (back from committee); and No. 10a, motion re Supplementary Statement of Expenditure for Houses of the Oireachtas (without debate) agreed to?

[463]Deputy Joe Higgins:    No. Before agreeing that No. 10, Supplementary Estimate for Public Services [Vote 42], should be taken without debate, will the Taoiseach give the House an assurance in regard to Ms Teresa Treacy of Clonmore, County Offaly, who is in Mountyjoy jail at the behest of a powerful semi-State company, the ESB? This is totally inappropriate when there is an alternative. Will the Taoiseach intervene to ensure this situation is resolved urgently?

An Ceann Comhairle:    I am sorry Deputy but that has nothing to do with the Supplementary Estimate.

Deputy Joe Higgins:    It is a question of whether or not it is done without debate. If there is a debate on a Supplementary Estimate regarding public bodies, this is an issue that should be discussed.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is anyone else objecting to this Supplementary Estimate?

The Taoiseach:    I understand that EirGrid has been trying to work out a compassionate solution to this particular problem.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I will put the question.

Deputy Joe Higgins:    In the interests of a just way——

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett:    She just wants to negotiate.

Deputy Joe Higgins:    ——there is another possibility.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the Deputy proceeding with his objection?

Deputy Joe Higgins:    I just wish to put it to the Taoiseach that there is a very reasonable alternative, that the lines are put underground which is more environmentally friendly. Will he not intervene to ensure that this poor woman is released from prison?

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the Deputy continuing his objection? Shall I put the question or is the proposal agreed?

Deputy Joe Higgins:    I await a reply from the Taoiseach.

An Ceann Comhairle:    He replied to that.

The Taoiseach:    What we want is a just outcome to this problem. As I understand, the personnel in EirGrid have been trying to arrive at a compassionate solution to the problem and I hope this can be achieved.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10 and No. 10a agreed to? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 11, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of Ireland’s participation in the European Defence Agency programme, agreed? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 1, Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2011[Seanad], Second Stage, agreed?

Deputy Micheál Martin:    It is not agreed. I oppose the Order of Business as regards this item. On the broader issue, I am very disappointed that time has not been allowed for a substantial debate on the eurozone crisis. The entire world is commenting on it, including President Obama.

[464]An Ceann Comhairle:    We are dealing with the Insurance (Amendment) Bill.

Deputy Micheál Martin:    I know that.

An Ceann Comhairle:    It has nothing to do with the eurozone.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Micheál Martin:    I am opposing the Order of Business. I am opposing the taking of Second Stage of the Bill. I believe——

An Ceann Comhairle:    We cannot have a debate on an entirely different subject.

Deputy Micheál Martin:    I do not ask for a debate, I want to give the reasons for my opposition to the proposal. We asked last week for a debate on the eurozone crisis and this crisis trumps anything on the agenda for today or tomorrow in its urgency and importance. I find it extraordinary that this Parliament is the last place to debate and discuss the eurozone crisis when the entire world, at this stage, is discussing it and some fundamental questions regarding the eurozone which pertain to Ireland, are on the agenda while this House is not discussing it.

An Ceann Comhairle:    That has nothing to do with the Second Stage of the Insurance (Amendment) Bill.

Deputy Micheál Martin:    It is a question of the allocation of time.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I do not care what the Deputy thinks. It has nothing to do with the Insurance (Amendment) Bill.

Deputy Billy Kelleher:    This is the hypocrisy exposed, about burning the bondholders and bankers’ pay.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputy Martin can seek a debate on the Order of Business.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Ó Snodaigh. Has Deputy Ó Snodaigh a difficulty with the Insurance (Amendment) Bill?

(Interruptions).

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh:    I have specific difficulty with the way in which it is laid out.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:    I suggest the people on the backbenches have a rest, please.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh:    I have two difficulties with the proposal. I find it strange that tomorrow’s business is being ordered today when there will be an Order of Business tomorrow. I note the proposal that Second Stage of the Insurance (Amendment) Bill shall be brought to a conclusion tomorrow at 6 p.m. I object to the guillotine and also to the fact that tomorrow’s business is being ordered today. I am also concerned that all too often, the opening speaking slots are now being reduced to 15 minutes on a number of Bills, in place of the previous arrangement of 30 minutes. I acknowledge the opening speaking slot can be shared. With regard to this Bill, a spokesperson might only want to speak for 15 minutes and that is his or her choice, but the reduction of time should not become common practice.

[465]An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Boyd Barrett on behalf of People Before Profit.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett:    I also object to the guillotine being imposed on the Insurance (Amendment) Bill. I spent an hour at a Department of Finance briefing this morning trying to get my head around the quagmire of the collapse of Quinn Insurance and this Bill is yet again a case of the ordinary policyholders having to bail out this failed entity which is tied up with Anglo Irish Bank bondholders and all the rest of it. Policyholders will be forced to pay a significant levy for at least the next ten years or so.

There is no provision in this Bill to go after the €200 million in personal wealth which Seán Quinn gave to his children, yet ordinary people will be carrying the can. In that context, it is outrageous that something as important and as complex as this Bill should be rammed through the Dáil in such a short time without sufficient time for a debate and then to have a guillotine imposed on it. I urge the Taoiseach to give proper time and not to impose a guillotine on this matter which has far-reaching consequences for many citizens.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I call Deputy Joe Higgins on behalf of the Socialist Party.

Deputy Joe Higgins:    It is very objectionable that the Government begins this new autumn session in the same way as it went about its business during the first session of this new Dáil, with guillotines virtually every day. The same parties when in opposition were highly vociferous for many years against the Fianna Fáil Administration, for the same type of guillotines. What has changed?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan:    I remember what they told us at the time.

Deputy Joe Higgins:    There is a different way of doing this. The Taoiseach did not even ask to see how many speakers might wish to contribute to a particular Bill and then make an estimate on that basis. He has proposed the blunt weapon of the guillotine and it is not acceptable.

This is another bailout on the backs of ordinary people for the machinations of the sharks in insurance and high finance and it deserves to be teased out in great detail. I fully agree with the objections to this guillotine.

The Taoiseach:    It is time for people to get real. I refer to the question raised by Deputy Martin in respect of a debate on the eurozone issue. The European financial stability Bill was debated here until late last Tuesday and Wednesday and this provided an opportunity for everyone to contribute. I have asked the Chief Whip to arrange a two-hour debate on this issue next week.

Deputy Micheál Martin:    Two hours?

The Taoiseach:    Yes. If the Deputy was listening to me instead of texting on his phone, he would know that last Tuesday and Wednesday we discussed the European financial stability Bill until late. I say to Deputy Higgins and Deputy Boyd Barrett, who come in here and bleat away every day about the ordinary workers——

Deputy Billy Kelleher:    They are just following what the Taoiseach did last year.

The Taoiseach:    ——that the sale of Quinn Insurance to Liberty will be raised in the High Court on 4 October and the question will be asked as to whether provision has been made in law for this levy to be paid. If the Minister for Finance had allowed this collapse, the cost would have been something of the order of €2 billion.

[466]Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett:    That assumes there were no alternatives.

The Taoiseach:    I remind the two Deputies who comment about the ordinary workers that 1,600 jobs are being protected in this case, in the Border counties and these are ordinary workers. It is about time that people faced that reality. This Bill has to go through the House. Second Stage will be dealt with today and tomorrow evening, Committee and Remaining Stages will be taken from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m. We can have Deputy Martin’s debate on the eurozone and listen to his proposals next week. This is the reason for the urgency in dealing with the Insurance (Amendment) Bill. The 1,600 jobs are of critical importance and the reduced saving brought about by the Government decision is very considerable. The reason for the quick passage is that the matter comes before the High Court on 4 October.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I will put the question.

Deputy Joe Higgins:    When sheep lead, we speak up for working people. I do not take being Cassius lightly.

Question put: “That the proposal for dealing with No. 1, Second Stage of the Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2011 be agreed to.”

The Dáil divided: Tá, 96; Níl, 42.

Tá
Barry, Tom.	Breen, Pat.
Broughan, Thomas P.	Bruton, Richard.
Butler, Ray.	Buttimer, Jerry.
Byrne, Catherine.	Byrne, Eric.
Cannon, Ciarán.	Carey, Joe.
Coffey, Paudie.	Collins, Áine.
Conaghan, Michael.	Conlan, Seán.
Connaughton, Paul J.	Conway, Ciara.
Coonan, Noel.	Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
Coveney, Simon.	Creed, Michael.
Daly, Jim.	Deasy, John.
Deenihan, Jimmy.	Deering, Pat.
Doherty, Regina.	Donohoe, Paschal.
Dowds, Robert.	Doyle, Andrew.
Durkan, Bernard J.	English, Damien.
Farrell, Alan.	Feighan, Frank.
Ferris, Anne.	Fitzgerald, Frances.
Fitzpatrick, Peter.	Flanagan, Charles.
Flanagan, Terence.	Griffin, Brendan.
Hannigan, Dominic.	Harrington, Noel.
Harris, Simon.	Hayes, Brian.
Hayes, Tom.	Heydon, Martin.
Hogan, Phil.	Howlin, Brendan.
Humphreys, Heather.	Humphreys, Kevin.
Keating, Derek.	Keaveney, Colm.
Kelly, Alan.	Kenny, Enda.
Kenny, Seán.	Kyne, Seán.
Lawlor, Anthony.	Lynch, Ciarán.
McCarthy, Michael.	McGinley, Dinny.
McHugh, Joe.	McLoughlin, Tony.
McNamara, Michael.	Maloney, Eamonn.
Mathews, Peter.	Mitchell, Olivia.
Mitchell O’Connor, Mary.	Mulherin, Michelle.
Murphy, Dara.	Murphy, Eoghan.
Nash, Gerald.	Naughten, Denis.
Nolan, Derek.	Noonan, Michael.
Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.	O’Donnell, Kieran.
O’Donovan, Patrick.	O’Dowd, Fergus.
O’Mahony, John.	O’Reilly, Joe.
O’Sullivan, Jan.	Perry, John.
Phelan, Ann.	Phelan, John Paul.
Rabbitte, Pat.	Reilly, James.
Ryan, Brendan.	Shatter, Alan.
Shortall, Róisín.	Spring, Arthur.
Stagg, Emmet.	Stanton, David.
Timmins, Billy.	Tuffy, Joanna.
Twomey, Liam.	Wall, Jack.
Walsh, Brian.	White, Alex.

Níl
Adams, Gerry.	Boyd Barrett, Richard.
Calleary, Dara.	Collins, Joan.
Collins, Niall.	Colreavy, Michael.
Cowen, Barry.	Daly, Clare.
Doherty, Pearse.	Dooley, Timmy.
Ellis, Dessie.	Ferris, Martin.
Flanagan, Luke ‘Ming’.	Fleming, Sean.
Fleming, Tom.	Halligan, John.
Healy-Rae, Michael.	Higgins, Joe.
Kelleher, Billy.	Kirk, Seamus.
Kitt, Michael P.	Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
McConalogue, Charlie.	McGrath, Mattie.
McGrath, Michael.	McLellan, Sandra.
Martin, Micheál.	Moynihan, Michael.
Murphy, Catherine.	Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Ó Cuív, Éamon.	Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.	O’Brien, Jonathan.
O’Dea, Willie.	O’Sullivan, Maureen.
Pringle, Thomas.	Ross, Shane.
Smith, Brendan.	Tóibín, Peadar.
Troy, Robert.	Wallace, Mick.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I remind Members that only three minutes remain on the Order of Business. Any private discussions should take place outside the Chamber.

  5 o’clock

Deputy Micheál Martin:    The Taoiseach indicated in his previous response that he would allocate two hours for a debate next week on the eurozone crisis. I reiterate my disappointment that our request last week to facilitate a debate this week on the euro crisis was not met. It is incredible that the entire world is discussing the crisis and we, as a national Parliament, do not seem to have the facility to do that. It reflects badly on the Executive and those who table the agenda that they cannot allow for a reasonable debate. It is regrettable that we are not having that debate this week. Will the Taoiseach ask the Chief Whip to have a meaningful dialogue with the other Whips regarding the length and the organisation of the debate next week and, if possible, to include a question and answer session on key issues?

The Taoiseach:    I repeat that it is opportune for Opposition Whips to raise requests at the Whips meeting. The House sat late on both Tuesday and Wednesday evenings last week to discuss the financial stability Bill——

[468]Deputy Micheál Martin:    That is a separate issue.

The Taoiseach:    ——which deals with many of these issues.

Deputy Micheál Martin:    That was urgently guillotined.

The Taoiseach:    I do not have a particular problem with a debate next week and if the Deputy wants a debate longer than two hours, he should have his Whip raise it at the Whips’ meeting.

Deputy Micheál Martin:    We wanted it this week.

The Taoiseach:    I will not object to it. It is an important debate but we have to have some time to structure what it is we have to do.

Deputy Micheál Martin:    Will there be questions?

Deputy Timmy Dooley:    Will we get answers?

Deputy Gerry Adams:    We have called for a debate on the euro crisis for the past two weeks. I raised this with the Taoiseach two weeks ago and he promised me a debate. He referred me to the my party Whip. Deputy Ó Snodaigh raised it at the Whips’ meeting. Deputy McDonald then raised it in the House last week. We have ended up bringing the Government kicking and squealing to the House to have this debate. It is not good enough, as this is one of the biggest crisis facing the EU.

An Ceann Comhairle:    I am glad the Deputy has succeeded in getting it raised.

The Taoiseach:    It was not raised by Deputies McDonald or Boyd Barrett at the Whips meeting.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh:    Deputy MacDonald was not at the meeting; I was.

The Taoiseach:    The Deputy’s comment about us being dragged kicking and screeching is nonsense. He can have a debate next week, put a structure to it and have his Whip raise at the Whips’ meeting the time he requires.

Deputy Gerry Adams:    Deputy Boyd Barrett is not a member of Sinn Féin and Deputy McDonald is not the party Whip. This was raised by our party Whip with the Government Chief Whip.

Deputy Joe Higgins:    The Taoiseach announced a by-election in Dublin West on 27 October, which means the writ needs to be moved and ministerial orders made. I notice today with some alarm that the poles are rapidly filling up with posters of the growing list of presidential wannabees, which might indicate that in Dublin West there will be no space for the peasants if the Taoiseach delays.

Deputy Billy Kelleher:    The Deputy should be careful what he wishes for. He might have a running mate for the next election.

An Ceann Comhairle:    That is not a matter for the Order of Business.

Deputy Joe Higgins:    Will the Government move the writ and put the process in place this week? Laochra Fáil can do it but they seem to be a little hesitant at the moment. Perhaps they will announce their intentions here but the people of Dublin West are anxious to begin the debate.

[469]An Ceann Comhairle:    We are out of time in accordance with Standing Orders. The Taoiseach will make a quick reply. I cannot do anything about it.

The Taoiseach:    If the by-election is to be held on 27 October, the writ must be moved between tomorrow and 6 October. We have changed the regulations in order that by-elections will be held within six months of being caused. However, this by-election has resulted from the unfortunate death of a member of Fianna Fáil and Deputy Martin’s party will be given the opportunity to move the writ in accordance with precedent. I understand he will possibly do that on Thursday.

Deputy Micheál Martin:    That has not been decided. It will be within the period.

An Ceann Comhairle:    Deputies Donohoe and Naughten will be given priority tomorrow. We are out of time.

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Last Updated: 08/03/2013 18:44:42

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