Order of Business

Friday, 20 April 2012

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 762 No. 2

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Minister for Social Protection (Deputy Joan Burton): Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  It is proposed to take No. 17, Revised Estimates for Public Services 2011, Votes 1 to 6, back from committee; No. 4, Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union) Bill 2012 — Second Stage (resumed); No. 13 — motion re statement for information of voters in relation to the Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union) Bill 2012; and No. 34, Burial and Cremation Regulation Bill 2011 — Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders or the order of the Dáil of 22 March, that: No. 17 shall be decided without debate — Votes 1 to 6 shall be moved together and decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; in regard to No. 4, the proceedings on Second Stage (resumed) shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 12.30 p.m. and that the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade; No. 13 shall be taken immediately at the conclusion of No. 4 and decided without debate; No. 34 shall be taken at the conclusion of No. 13, that the proceedings thereon shall be brought to a conclusion after three hours and the following arrangements shall apply: the opening speech of Deputy Tommy Broughan and the contributions of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin, the Technical Group and a Minister or Minister of State, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, Members may share time, a Minister or Minister of State, who may speak twice, shall be called upon not more than two hours and 30 minutes from the commencement of the proceedings to make a speech which shall not exceed 15 minutes, Deputy Tommy Broughan shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 15 minutes, and if a division is demanded on the Bill, it shall be postponed until immediately after the Order of Business on Tuesday, 24 April, in accordance with Standing Order 117A; and for the purposes of Standing Order 117A, the first Friday of the month in May shall be Friday, 11 May, the time and date by which notice of a Bill in connection with that sitting will be received by the Clerk shall be 11 a.m. on Friday, 27 April, and related Standing Orders shall apply accordingly.

[218]An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  There are five proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 17, Revised Estimates for Public Services 2011, Votes 1 to 6, to be taken without debate, agreed to? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with Second Stage (resumed) and Committee and Remaining Stages of the Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union) Bill 2012 agreed to?

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  It is not. Once again, a very important debate is to be guillotined in this House.

A Deputy:  Where was the Deputy yesterday?

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  The record will show that I was in attendance. To clarify for Members opposite, it is proposed that the debate on Second Stage of this very important Bill which could cause a loss of Irish sovereignty and tie us to austerity indefinitely should be guillotined at 12.30 p.m. and that the time allocated for Committee and Remaining Stages should be limited to one hour. Even though it is very difficult in any referendum Bill to alter the wording on Committee Stage, the guillotine should not be applied in this instance. I acknowledge that we are sitting on a Friday, which is a welcome change. However, on this occasion we should sit for as long as is necessary today, tomorrow and Sunday, as long as there are speakers who wish to contribute to the debate. Therefore, I urge the Government not to proceed with the guillotine. I have opposed guillotines on a range of issues but this is one of the most important debates to have taken place in respect of the future of Ireland.

Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl: Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Notwithstanding the validity of the point about guillotines, I am conscious that only one amendment has been tabled in respect of this legislation. Consequently, it should be possible to deal with it within the envisaged timeframe and Fianna Fáil will not oppose this proposal.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl: Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  However, I refer to the point raised by Deputy Ó Snodaigh to the effect that Members are present on a Friday. This appears to be the first meaningful Friday sitting to have taken place.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  I say “well done”, to the Minister, Deputy Burton.

Deputy Patrick O’Donovan: Information on Patrick O'Donovan  Zoom on Patrick O'Donovan  Where is Deputy Kelleher? There is no sign of him.

Deputy Timmy Dooley: Information on Tim Dooley  Zoom on Tim Dooley  The Deputy should show a bit more respect for her. She is a good one.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Order, please.

Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl: Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  I commend the Government on moving towards the sort of proposals regarding Friday sittings that Fianna Fáil has had on the table for a long time. It is good there is an Order of Business and that legislation is before Members today. Can the Minister assure Members that future Friday sittings to deal with Private Members’ business, which is important and has been a positive initiative in this House, will expand to do precisely what is being done today? Will such sittings have an Order of Business, will Ministers answer questions and will legislation be brought before Members?

[219]An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Deputy Finian McGrath, on the same issue.

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  I strongly oppose the guillotine on the debate on the legislation for the 30th amendment to the Constitution. This is a crucial and critical time for Ireland and a balanced debate is needed.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: Information on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Zoom on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Is the Deputy in favour of the amendment?

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  Moreover, Members must watch their language, judging by the comments made by Labour Party Members yesterday, some of which were outrageous.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: Information on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Zoom on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Will the Deputy vote “Yes”?

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  I refer to use of words such as “lunacy” and so on. Consequently, a proper, balanced and decent debate is required.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: Information on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Zoom on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Will the Deputy vote “Yes”?

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  As for guillotines, I remind Deputy Ó Ríordáin that in the last Dáil, Labour Party and Fine Gael Members jumped up and down any time legislation was guillotined. That is the reality.

Deputy Patrick O’Donovan: Information on Patrick O'Donovan  Zoom on Patrick O'Donovan  Deputy Finian McGrath was supporting the Government at the time.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  The Deputy was supporting Bertie at the time.

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  Consequently, Members should quit the hypocrisy and get over it. Let us get on with it.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Order, please.

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  I also wish to state from a democratic point of view——

(Interruptions).

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  ——with the Leas-Cheann Comhairle’s permission and protection——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Deputies, order, please. Deputy Finian McGrath has the floor.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  The reason the Deputy was not jumping up and down was that he was supporting Bertie.

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  I supported the people and always stuck by them. That is my position.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  Except when the Deputy supported Bertie.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: Information on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Zoom on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Will the Deputy vote “Yes”?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Deputy Finian McGrath, without interruption.

[220]Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  I revert to the issue of the 30th amendment and note that guillotining legislation is a dangerous step for this House to take. It also is highly undemocratic. If this Bill is guillotined today, my good colleague, Deputy Ross, is one of those Members who will not be afforded an opportunity to speak on this issue.

Deputy Eamonn Maloney: Information on Eamonn Maloney  Zoom on Eamonn Maloney  My God.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  My point is that regardless of one’s political party or political view, one should be allowed to speak in this House. This is a democratic issue and shame on all the Deputies opposite. They have not argued the case for the guillotine.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Please, can we have order please?

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  In reply to Deputy Ó Snodaigh, as for votes of confidence in Ireland and it being in a position to recover its economic independence and sovereignty——

Deputy Dara Calleary: Information on Dara Calleary  Zoom on Dara Calleary  No thanks to the Minister.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  ——I welcome the announcement of the investment by Apple in Cork that will lead to 500 jobs.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  I also welcome the successful negotiations being concluded in China in respect of further investment in Ireland. My colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, has been involved in these negotiations on behalf of the Government and the Irish people.

Deputy James Bannon: Information on James Bannon  Zoom on James Bannon  Hear, hear.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  This is one of a string of announcements and I note that announcements of this nature will provide economic recovery to the country.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  What about economic sovereignty?

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  I note to the Deputy that were we to decide in some way to retreat from our position at the core of the eurozone, it would leave investors in Ireland perplexed and bewildered. The reason they are investing in Ireland is because it is a critical location for multinational and international companies to invest in the eurozone.

In response to Deputy Finian McGrath, the legislation in respect of the referendum on the 30th amendment has been debated in the House all week. I understand one amendment has been tabled for Committee Stage. Ultimately, the referendum is the property of the citizens of Ireland, who will vote——

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  Even though 39% of them still do not know how they intend to vote, the Government wishes to guillotine the Bill.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: Information on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Zoom on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  The Deputy is one of them.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Order, please.

[221]Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Deputy McGrath should note the citizens——

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  This is a disgrace as the Government seeks to kill the debate.

Deputy Martin Ferris: Information on Martin Ferris  Zoom on Martin Ferris  This is coming from those who did not accept the will of the people previously.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Deputy McGrath, please.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  The citizens of our republic——

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  Yes, 39% of whom do not know.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  ——will be those who will make the decision as to whether to vote “Yes” or “No” to the referendum question. The arrangements in this House are to give the citizens an opportunity to make their decision at the ballot box on the referendum.

Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  Will the Government accept it?

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  The Government is closing down debate.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  The referendum already has been debated in the House throughout this week for approximately nine hours. One amendment has been tabled for Committee Stage, for which one hour of debate is provided. As all Members are anxious to be able to go to the citizens and have political discussions and conversations with them about what, in their wisdom, they should decide to do, Deputy Finian McGrath should not seek to impede the citizens’ ability to have a full and proper debate on the referendum.

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  The Government is closing down debate. This is censorship.

Question put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 69; Níl, 16.

Information on James Bannon  Zoom on James Bannon  Bannon, James. Information on Tom Barry  Zoom on Tom Barry  Barry, Tom.
Information on Pat Breen  Zoom on Pat Breen  Breen, Pat. Information on Thomas P. Broughan  Zoom on Thomas P. Broughan  Broughan, Thomas P.
Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Burton, Joan. Information on Ray Butler  Zoom on Ray Butler  Butler, Ray.
Information on Jerry Buttimer  Zoom on Jerry Buttimer  Buttimer, Jerry. Information on Catherine Byrne  Zoom on Catherine Byrne  Byrne, Catherine.
Information on Eric J. Byrne  Zoom on Eric J. Byrne  Byrne, Eric. Information on Dara Calleary  Zoom on Dara Calleary  Calleary, Dara.
Information on Ciaran Cannon  Zoom on Ciaran Cannon  Cannon, Ciarán. Information on Michael Conaghan  Zoom on Michael Conaghan  Conaghan, Michael.
Information on Sean Conlan  Zoom on Sean Conlan  Conlan, Seán. Information on Paul Connaughton  Zoom on Paul Connaughton  Connaughton, Paul J.
Information on Marcella MarcellaCorcoran Kennedy  Zoom on Marcella MarcellaCorcoran Kennedy  Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella. Information on Joe Costello  Zoom on Joe Costello  Costello, Joe.
Information on Jim Daly  Zoom on Jim Daly  Daly, Jim. Information on Jimmy Deenihan  Zoom on Jimmy Deenihan  Deenihan, Jimmy.
Information on Patrick Deering  Zoom on Patrick Deering  Deering, Pat. Information on Regina Doherty  Zoom on Regina Doherty  Doherty, Regina.
Information on Paschal Donohoe  Zoom on Paschal Donohoe  Donohoe, Paschal. Information on Tim Dooley  Zoom on Tim Dooley  Dooley, Timmy.
Information on Andrew Doyle  Zoom on Andrew Doyle  Doyle, Andrew. Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  Durkan, Bernard J.
Information on Alan Farrell  Zoom on Alan Farrell  Farrell, Alan. Information on Frank Feighan  Zoom on Frank Feighan  Feighan, Frank.
Information on Anne Ferris  Zoom on Anne Ferris  Ferris, Anne. Information on Frances Fitzgerald  Zoom on Frances Fitzgerald  Fitzgerald, Frances.
Information on Charles Flanagan  Zoom on Charles Flanagan  Flanagan, Charles. Information on Terence Flanagan  Zoom on Terence Flanagan  Flanagan, Terence.
Information on Brendan Griffin  Zoom on Brendan Griffin  Griffin, Brendan. Information on Noel Harrington  Zoom on Noel Harrington  Harrington, Noel.
Information on Simon Harris  Zoom on Simon Harris  Harris, Simon. Information on Martin Heydon  Zoom on Martin Heydon  Heydon, Martin.
Information on Heather Humphreys  Zoom on Heather Humphreys  Humphreys, Heather. Information on Kevin Humphreys  Zoom on Kevin Humphreys  Humphreys, Kevin.
Information on Derek Keating  Zoom on Derek Keating  Keating, Derek. Information on Paul Kehoe  Zoom on Paul Kehoe  Kehoe, Paul.
Information on Seán Kenny  Zoom on Seán Kenny  Kenny, Seán. Information on Seán Kyne  Zoom on Seán Kyne  Kyne, Seán.
Information on Anthony Lawlor  Zoom on Anthony Lawlor  Lawlor, Anthony. Information on Kathleen Lynch  Zoom on Kathleen Lynch  Lynch, Kathleen.
Information on Joe McHugh  Zoom on Joe McHugh  McHugh, Joe. Information on Tony McLoughlin  Zoom on Tony McLoughlin  McLoughlin, Tony.
Information on Eamonn Maloney  Zoom on Eamonn Maloney  Maloney, Eamonn. Information on Peter Mathews  Zoom on Peter Mathews  Mathews, Peter.
Information on Olivia Mitchell  Zoom on Olivia Mitchell  Mitchell, Olivia. Information on Mary Mitchell O'Connor  Zoom on Mary Mitchell O'Connor  Mitchell O’Connor, Mary.
Information on Michael Moynihan  Zoom on Michael Moynihan  Moynihan, Michael. Information on Michelle Mulherin  Zoom on Michelle Mulherin  Mulherin, Michelle.
Information on Dara Murphy  Zoom on Dara Murphy  Murphy, Dara. Information on Dan Neville  Zoom on Dan Neville  Neville, Dan.
Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  Ó Cuív, Éamon. Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
Information on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Zoom on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán. Information on Patrick O'Donovan  Zoom on Patrick O'Donovan  O’Donovan, Patrick.
Information on John O'Mahony  Zoom on John O'Mahony  O’Mahony, John. Information on John Perry  Zoom on John Perry  Perry, John.
Information on Ann Phelan  Zoom on Ann Phelan  Phelan, Ann. Information on John Paul Phelan  Zoom on John Paul Phelan  Phelan, John Paul.
Information on Dr James Reilly  Zoom on Dr James Reilly  Reilly, James. Information on Brendan Ryan  Zoom on Brendan Ryan  Ryan, Brendan.
Information on Brendan Smith  Zoom on Brendan Smith  Smith, Brendan. Information on Arthur Spring  Zoom on Arthur Spring  Spring, Arthur.
Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  Stagg, Emmet. Information on David Stanton  Zoom on David Stanton  Stanton, David.
Information on Jack Wall  Zoom on Jack Wall  Wall, Jack. Information on Brian Walsh  Zoom on Brian Walsh  Walsh, Brian.
Information on Alex White  Zoom on Alex White  White, Alex.  


Níl
Information on Gerry Adams  Zoom on Gerry Adams  Adams, Gerry. Information on Joan Collins  Zoom on Joan Collins  Collins, Joan.
Information on Michael Colreavy  Zoom on Michael Colreavy  Colreavy, Michael. Information on Clare Daly  Zoom on Clare Daly  Daly, Clare.
Information on Martin Ferris  Zoom on Martin Ferris  Ferris, Martin. Information on Luke 'Ming' Flanagan  Zoom on Luke 'Ming' Flanagan  Flanagan, Luke ‘Ming’.
Information on Tom Fleming  Zoom on Tom Fleming  Fleming, Tom. Information on Michael Healy-Rae  Zoom on Michael Healy-Rae  Healy-Rae, Michael.
Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  McGrath, Finian. Information on Sandra McLellan  Zoom on Sandra McLellan  McLellan, Sandra.
Information on Catherine Murphy  Zoom on Catherine Murphy  Murphy, Catherine. Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  Ó Snodaigh, Aengus. Information on Jonathan O'Brien  Zoom on Jonathan O'Brien  O’Brien, Jonathan.
Information on Shane Peter Nathaniel Ross  Zoom on Shane Peter Nathaniel Ross  Ross, Shane. Information on Mick Wallace  Zoom on Mick Wallace  Wallace, Mick.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Catherine Murphy.

Question declared carried.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Is the proposal for dealing with No. 13, motion re statement for information of voters in respect of the Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union) Bill 2012 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 34, Burial and Cremation Regulation Bill 2011 — Second Stage, agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for the sitting and business of the Dáil on Friday, 11 May 2012 agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl: Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Before moving on and with regard to Dáil reform, we will have no opportunity today to pursue Order of Business matters, and that should be looked at. When a vote is called, the time for the Order of Business is consumed but the Tánaiste agreed some time ago to examine the issue. Could it be put back on the agenda so we can do something about it as a matter of urgency?

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  This is a matter of Dáil reform so perhaps it can be taken up with the Whips in that context.

Deputy Charles Flanagan: Information on Charles Flanagan  Zoom on Charles Flanagan  The Deputy’s party had 14 years.

Deputy Brendan Smith: Information on Brendan Smith  Zoom on Brendan Smith  There was no restriction on the Order of Business.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  The Deputy might not remember but there was no restriction whatever.


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