Order of Business

Tuesday, 24 April 2012

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 762 No. 3

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The Taoiseach: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  It is proposed to take No. 9, motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions; No. 16, Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012 — Second Stage (resumed); and No. 10, Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012 — Motion to Instruct the Committee.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn on the adjournment of Private Members’ business, which shall be No. 32 — Motorist Emergency Relief Bill 2012, Second Stage, which shall take place on the conclusion of No. 10, and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes tomorrow night; No. 9 shall be decided without debate; the proceedings on the resumed Second Stage of No. 16 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 6.45 p.m. tonight; and the proceedings on No. 10 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the speech of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, and who may share their time, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with [320]No. 9, motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions, without debate, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 16, Second Stage (resumed) of the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012, agreed to?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett  Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett  Since the original draft of the Bill issued, the Bill has been very substantially amended and rewritten and what we are now looking at is a different Bill. It is not the same Bill as was debated in the Dáil last week.

  5 o’clock

We are getting less than an hour — 7.54 p.m. to 8.45 p.m. — to discuss what is effectively a new Bill with considerable changes, such as the spreading out of social welfare benefits to part-time workers over five days rather than six, which will substantially affect people’s incomes, as well as a series of other major changes. It is not acceptable that what is effectively a new Bill should be discussed for less than an hour and that the Technical Group will not have a chance to speak on it at all. We will not be able to make any comment on what is effectively a new Bill. We want to protest in the strongest possible terms. This is not acceptable, and more time must be allowed on Second Stage to discuss the Bill along with the raft of amendments that change it substantially.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  Deputy Fleming, who is taking this Bill on behalf of our party, has indicated to me that quite a substantial number of amendments have arrived late in the day and adequate time has not been allowed for discussion of these amendments to allow an understanding of their full implications. More time is required, given the number of amendments and the lateness of their arrival. This represents a substantive change to the Bill as discussed on Second Stage.

There is also the issue of section 4 of the Bill, pertaining to single parents and the ending of payments when children reach the age of seven, on which I still have not received a response from the Government with regard to conditionality. The attachment of conditionality to any Bill coming through the House from a member of the Cabinet, making it subject to the response of other Cabinet members to the conditions the Minister has laid down, is unprecedented. I would appreciate the Taoiseach’s comments on that aspect. Is it his intention to proceed with section 4 as well as these other amendments?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  I must point out that what we are being asked to agree here is the proposal for dealing with Second Stage of the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill. The next proposal, on No. 10, deals with the motion to instruct the committee regarding changes to the Bill. I say this in case there is any misunderstanding.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams  Zoom on Gerry Adams  I was going to oppose proposal No. 4, so I am seeking guidance. I do not think that 15 minutes per party is enough.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  That is a condition imposed by Standing Orders. In order to introduce new amendments to a Bill, 60 minutes must be given for this purpose.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams  Zoom on Gerry Adams  Okay, but there have been——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  It is Standing Order 131, if I remember correctly.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams  Zoom on Gerry Adams  The Government has introduced many amendments to the Bill, but there are conflicting signals. The Minister is telling us she does not agree to some key elements of the Bill, yet it is being rushed through this evening. For all the Taoiseach’s attempts to put down Deputy Boyd Barrett, it is totally unacceptable that the Technical Group should not have the right to speak on this, if what the Deputy says is true.

[321]Deputies:  Hear, hear.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  Terrible.

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  It is exclusion.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  That is reform of Government.

Deputy Paul Kehoe: Information on Paul Kehoe  Zoom on Paul Kehoe  The Deputy was in government himself.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  If there is an objection to the item on the Order of Business, Standing Orders states that leaders of parties have the right to speak, not groups.

The Taoiseach: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  There have been ten hours of debate on this already, practically.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  We have had two or three days.

The Taoiseach: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  The reason the motion is being introduced is that the Minister has brought in a number of new amendments that were not part of the published Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Sorry, Taoiseach; there is a misunderstanding here. We are talking about the time allocated for the completion of Second Stage only. We will move on to the other item afterwards.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  Why is it being taken now, anyway?

The Taoiseach: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  There have been ten hours of debate on Second Stage. We can deal with the other point later.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  It is a different Bill.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett  Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett  It is a different Bill now.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  I must put the question.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  A Cheann Comhairle, it is a completely different Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Do you mind?

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  The Ceann Comhairle will not let us speak any other way.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  The Deputy will have a chance in a minute to say “Yes” or “No”.

Question put. “That the proposal for dealing with No. 16 be agreed to.”

The Dáil divided: Tá, 83; Níl, 39.

Information on Pat Breen  Zoom on Pat Breen  Breen, Pat. Information on Thomas P. Broughan  Zoom on Thomas P. Broughan  Broughan, Thomas P.
Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Burton, Joan. Information on Ray Butler  Zoom on Ray Butler  Butler, Ray.
Information on Jerry Buttimer  Zoom on Jerry Buttimer  Buttimer, Jerry. Information on Catherine Byrne  Zoom on Catherine Byrne  Byrne, Catherine.
Information on Eric J. Byrne  Zoom on Eric J. Byrne  Byrne, Eric. Information on Ciaran Cannon  Zoom on Ciaran Cannon  Cannon, Ciarán.
Information on Joe Carey  Zoom on Joe Carey  Carey, Joe. Information on Paudie Coffey  Zoom on Paudie Coffey  Coffey, Paudie.
Information on Michael Conaghan  Zoom on Michael Conaghan  Conaghan, Michael. Information on Sean Conlan  Zoom on Sean Conlan  Conlan, Seán.
Information on Paul Connaughton  Zoom on Paul Connaughton  Connaughton, Paul J. Information on Ciara Conway  Zoom on Ciara Conway  Conway, Ciara.
Information on Noel Coonan  Zoom on Noel Coonan  Coonan, Noel. Information on Marcella MarcellaCorcoran Kennedy  Zoom on Marcella MarcellaCorcoran Kennedy  Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
Information on Joe Costello  Zoom on Joe Costello  Costello, Joe. Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  Creed, Michael.
Information on Lucinda Creighton  Zoom on Lucinda Creighton  Creighton, Lucinda. Information on Jim Daly  Zoom on Jim Daly  Daly, Jim.
Information on John Deasy  Zoom on John Deasy  Deasy, John. Information on Jimmy Deenihan  Zoom on Jimmy Deenihan  Deenihan, Jimmy.
Information on Patrick Deering  Zoom on Patrick Deering  Deering, Pat. Information on Regina Doherty  Zoom on Regina Doherty  Doherty, Regina.
Information on Robert Dowds  Zoom on Robert Dowds  Dowds, Robert. Information on Andrew Doyle  Zoom on Andrew Doyle  Doyle, Andrew.
Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  Durkan, Bernard J. Information on Damien English  Zoom on Damien English  English, Damien.
Information on Alan Farrell  Zoom on Alan Farrell  Farrell, Alan. Information on Frank Feighan  Zoom on Frank Feighan  Feighan, Frank.
Information on Anne Ferris  Zoom on Anne Ferris  Ferris, Anne. Information on Frances Fitzgerald  Zoom on Frances Fitzgerald  Fitzgerald, Frances.
Information on Peter Fitzpatrick  Zoom on Peter Fitzpatrick  Fitzpatrick, Peter. Information on Charles Flanagan  Zoom on Charles Flanagan  Flanagan, Charles.
Information on Terence Flanagan  Zoom on Terence Flanagan  Flanagan, Terence. Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Gilmore, Eamon.
Information on Brendan Griffin  Zoom on Brendan Griffin  Griffin, Brendan. Information on Noel Harrington  Zoom on Noel Harrington  Harrington, Noel.
Information on Simon Harris  Zoom on Simon Harris  Harris, Simon. Information on Brian Hayes  Zoom on Brian Hayes  Hayes, Brian.
Information on Tom Hayes  Zoom on Tom Hayes  Hayes, Tom. Information on Philip Hogan  Zoom on Philip Hogan  Hogan, Phil.
Information on Heather Humphreys  Zoom on Heather Humphreys  Humphreys, Heather. Information on Kevin Humphreys  Zoom on Kevin Humphreys  Humphreys, Kevin.
Information on Derek Keating  Zoom on Derek Keating  Keating, Derek. Information on Paul Kehoe  Zoom on Paul Kehoe  Kehoe, Paul.
Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  Kenny, Enda. Information on Seán Kenny  Zoom on Seán Kenny  Kenny, Seán.
Information on Seán Kyne  Zoom on Seán Kyne  Kyne, Seán. Information on John Lyons  Zoom on John Lyons  Lyons, John.
Information on Nicky McFadden  Zoom on Nicky McFadden  McFadden, Nicky. Information on Dinny McGinley  Zoom on Dinny McGinley  McGinley, Dinny.
Information on Joe McHugh  Zoom on Joe McHugh  McHugh, Joe. Information on Tony McLoughlin  Zoom on Tony McLoughlin  McLoughlin, Tony.
Information on Eamonn Maloney  Zoom on Eamonn Maloney  Maloney, Eamonn. Information on Peter Mathews  Zoom on Peter Mathews  Mathews, Peter.
Information on Olivia Mitchell  Zoom on Olivia Mitchell  Mitchell, Olivia. Information on Mary Mitchell O'Connor  Zoom on Mary Mitchell O'Connor  Mitchell O’Connor, Mary.
Information on Michelle Mulherin  Zoom on Michelle Mulherin  Mulherin, Michelle. Information on Dara Murphy  Zoom on Dara Murphy  Murphy, Dara.
Information on Eoghan Murphy  Zoom on Eoghan Murphy  Murphy, Eoghan. Information on Gerald Nash  Zoom on Gerald Nash  Nash, Gerald.
Information on Dan Neville  Zoom on Dan Neville  Neville, Dan. Information on Derek Nolan  Zoom on Derek Nolan  Nolan, Derek.
Information on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Zoom on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán. Information on Kieran O'Donnell  Zoom on Kieran O'Donnell  O’Donnell, Kieran.
Information on Patrick O'Donovan  Zoom on Patrick O'Donovan  O’Donovan, Patrick. Information on Fergus O'Dowd  Zoom on Fergus O'Dowd  O’Dowd, Fergus.
Information on John O'Mahony  Zoom on John O'Mahony  O’Mahony, John. Information on John Perry  Zoom on John Perry  Perry, John.
Information on Ann Phelan  Zoom on Ann Phelan  Phelan, Ann. Information on Ruairí Quinn  Zoom on Ruairí Quinn  Quinn, Ruairí.
Information on Pat Rabbitte  Zoom on Pat Rabbitte  Rabbitte, Pat. Information on Michael Ring  Zoom on Michael Ring  Ring, Michael.
Information on Brendan Ryan  Zoom on Brendan Ryan  Ryan, Brendan. Information on Arthur Spring  Zoom on Arthur Spring  Spring, Arthur.
Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  Stagg, Emmet. Information on David Stanton  Zoom on David Stanton  Stanton, David.
Information on Billy Timmins  Zoom on Billy Timmins  Timmins, Billy. Information on Joanna Tuffy  Zoom on Joanna Tuffy  Tuffy, Joanna.
Information on Liam Twomey  Zoom on Liam Twomey  Twomey, Liam. Information on Brian Walsh  Zoom on Brian Walsh  Walsh, Brian.
Information on Alex White  Zoom on Alex White  White, Alex.  


Níl
Information on Gerry Adams  Zoom on Gerry Adams  Adams, Gerry. Information on Richard Boyd Barrett  Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett  Boyd Barrett, Richard.
Information on Dara Calleary  Zoom on Dara Calleary  Calleary, Dara. Information on Joan Collins  Zoom on Joan Collins  Collins, Joan.
Information on Michael Colreavy  Zoom on Michael Colreavy  Colreavy, Michael. Information on Stephen Donnelly  Zoom on Stephen Donnelly  Donnelly, Stephen S.
Information on Tim Dooley  Zoom on Tim Dooley  Dooley, Timmy. Information on Dessie Ellis  Zoom on Dessie Ellis  Ellis, Dessie.
Information on Martin Ferris  Zoom on Martin Ferris  Ferris, Martin. Information on Luke 'Ming' Flanagan  Zoom on Luke 'Ming' Flanagan  Flanagan, Luke ‘Ming’.
Information on Seán Fleming  Zoom on Seán Fleming  Fleming, Sean. Information on Tom Fleming  Zoom on Tom Fleming  Fleming, Tom.
Information on John Halligan  Zoom on John Halligan  Halligan, John. Information on Seamus Healy  Zoom on Seamus Healy  Healy, Seamus.
Information on Michael Healy-Rae  Zoom on Michael Healy-Rae  Healy-Rae, Michael. Information on Billy Kelleher  Zoom on Billy Kelleher  Kelleher, Billy.
Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Kirk, Seamus. Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Kitt, Michael P.
Information on Pádraig MacLochlainn  Zoom on Pádraig MacLochlainn  Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig. Information on Mary Lou McDonald  Zoom on Mary Lou McDonald  McDonald, Mary Lou.
Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  McGrath, Finian. Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  McGrath, Mattie.
Information on Michael McGrath  Zoom on Michael McGrath  McGrath, Michael. Information on John McGuinness  Zoom on John McGuinness  McGuinness, John.
Information on Sandra McLellan  Zoom on Sandra McLellan  McLellan, Sandra. Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  Martin, Micheál.
Information on Michael Moynihan  Zoom on Michael Moynihan  Moynihan, Michael. Information on Catherine Murphy  Zoom on Catherine Murphy  Murphy, Catherine.
Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín. Information on Éamon Ó Cuív  Zoom on Éamon Ó Cuív  Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Ó Fearghaíl, Seán. Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
Information on Jonathan O'Brien  Zoom on Jonathan O'Brien  O’Brien, Jonathan. Information on Shane Peter Nathaniel Ross  Zoom on Shane Peter Nathaniel Ross  Ross, Shane.
Information on Brendan Smith  Zoom on Brendan Smith  Smith, Brendan. Information on Brian Stanley  Zoom on Brian Stanley  Stanley, Brian.
Information on Peadar Tóibín  Zoom on Peadar Tóibín  Tóibín, Peadar. Information on Robert Troy  Zoom on Robert Troy  Troy, Robert.
Information on Mick Wallace  Zoom on Mick Wallace  Wallace, Mick.  

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Is No. 10, Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012 — motion to instruct the committee, agreed to?

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  It is not agreed.

[323]An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Before Deputy Martin makes his point, I wish to give notice that in accordance with Standing Order 141, where substantial amendments are being made to a Bill, there is provision for the Ceann Comhairle to ask that a new explanatory memorandum be prepared for the Members. I have asked for this and I understand it will be made available.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  Maith an fear.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  I thank the Ceann Comhairle and commend him on that action.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer: Information on Jerry Buttimer  Zoom on Jerry Buttimer  You did not do that when you were in government.

Interruptions.

Deputy Sean Fleming: Information on Seán Fleming  Zoom on Seán Fleming  It was done on foot of my suggestion. Deputies should check the record.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  I remind Deputy Buttimer the Ceann Comhairle is independent——

Deputy Jerry Buttimer: Information on Jerry Buttimer  Zoom on Jerry Buttimer  We know that. We remember when Rory O’Hanlon was in the Chair.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  ——and has the best interests of the Members of Parliament at heart. Deputy Buttimer should not be so angry. I do not know why he is heckling so much or why he seems so agitated.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer: Information on Jerry Buttimer  Zoom on Jerry Buttimer  Being a historian, Deputy Martin should know.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Can we have some order, please?

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  This represents a substantive change to the Bill. The reason the motion is being tabled is because the amendments introduced were not contemplated by the original Bill. They were outside the scope of the original Bill and that is not good enough in the context of a debate that is being guillotined on Second, Committee, Report and Final Stages. This is shoddy treatment of Members of the House by the Government on substantive issues. The motion on the Order Paper concerns “an instruction to the Committee on the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012 that it has power to make provisions to amend and extend the law relating to the Social Insurance Fund, employed contributors and employment contributions, supplementary welfare allowance, offences, miscellaneous control provisions and proceedings, claims and payments, jobseeker’s benefit, appointments and duties of social welfare inspectors, social welfare, miscellaneous provisions on budgeting, and occupational pension schemes”. This is extensive and it calls for a fundamental reappraisal by the Government of how the Bill is being treated in the House. Greater opportunity should be provided to Members of the House to give adequate time and consideration to the issues that have come before it in the substantive amendments that were not contemplated by the original Bill. It is not good enough in terms of procedure and it flies in the face of the commitment to Dáil reform and full engagement with all Members on legislation and propositions from the Government concerning serious issues that go to the heart of people on benefits and payments and their entitlements.

We have had enough stealth attacks on people on social welfare, particularly single parents. The domiciliary care issue was raised earlier and we need adequate time in the House to tease out these issues so that people can get to the nitty-gritty and the implications of what is being proposed.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  Deputy Martin did not practise that when he had responsibility.

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  Deputy Durkan should calm down.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  This is a discussion for leaders of groups.

[324]Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams  Zoom on Gerry Adams  I thought it appropriate that our Whip should deal with this issue.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  I will allow that on this exceptional occasion. It should be the leaders of political groupings.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  It is appropriate because I commend the Ceann Comhairle on seeking an explanatory memorandum. When this matter arose at the Whips meeting last week, a number of us were aware of the major changes being proposed to a Bill to deal with only two subjects — the disgraceful change to the entitlements of one parent families and pensions. The proposed changes are far-ranging and cover 12 areas of social welfare code. The Government Whip acknowledged that and took the opportunity to table a motion. However, rather than a motion to discuss the 12 points, in light of the Minister’s concerns about the Bill in respect of one parent families, the entire Bill should have been withdrawn and resubmitted with the changes made under the title of a social welfare miscellaneous provisions Bill. We will have an opportunity to discuss this later. The opportunity is limited to one hour, which means 15 minutes per grouping to deal with 12 areas of the social welfare code. The chosen option should have been to withdraw the Bill or extend the time available.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  In accordance with Standing Order 131, where substantial amendments are being made, reference is made to providing 60 minutes. That is what is being provided.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett  Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett  Perhaps our Whip can also speak——

Deputy Pat Deering: Information on Patrick Deering  Zoom on Patrick Deering  Deputy Boyd Barrett is the leader.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  I have the greatest respect for Deputy Catherine Murphy but she is not the Whip of People Before Profit. Deputy Boyd Barrett is the leader of People Before Profit and that is why he can speak.

Deputy John Halligan: Information on John Halligan  Zoom on John Halligan  She speaks for the Technical Group.

Deputy Michael Creed: Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  Schizophrenia.

Deputy Pat Deering: Information on Patrick Deering  Zoom on Patrick Deering  He is speechless.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  It is not the Technical Group, these are party leaders.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett  Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett  With respect, this is an issue to do with——

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  The Standing Order concerns interventions with regard to matters proposed during the Order of Business. It does not concern the topic of the Bill. If Deputies want to change Standing Orders, I have no problem with that. Deputies should submit a request to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and it can be discussed. Deputy Boyd Barrett is speaking on behalf of People Before Profit.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett  Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett  Is there no way I can have a substitute?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  No, unless Deputy Catherine Murphy has joined People Before Profit, which I doubt.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd: Information on Fergus O'Dowd  Zoom on Fergus O'Dowd  Deputy Boyd Barrett can use mental telepathy.

Deputy Pat Deering: Information on Patrick Deering  Zoom on Patrick Deering  Deputy Boyd Barrett can make it up as he goes along.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett  Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett  As I said earlier and as others have said, this is effectively a new Bill. The idea that we are talking about a new Bill dealing with important matters for [325]citizens of this country and for some of the most vulnerable sectors of society, which have been hit hard with austerity and cuts——

Deputy Michael Creed: Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  This is a single transferable speech.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett  Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett  They include lone parents, part-time workers and others dependent on social welfare. It is wrong that what is effectively a new Bill should receive less than one hour of discussion. It raises the question of what the Government and the Minister were doing when an extension of what the Bill is dealing with comes in at the last minute. It flies in the face of any commitment to serious accountability and democratic discussion on such an important Bill.

What is unacceptable in that regard is that all of the groups will not even get the 15 minutes referred to because one section of this House, effectively one third of the Opposition parties, will not have the opportunity to speak at all on Second Stage.

Deputy Finian McGrath: Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  We are second highest in the polls.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett  Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett  I appeal to the Taoiseach to be fair, democratic and reasonable. It is not right that one third of the Opposition is disenfranchised from discussing this changed Bill.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  The Taoiseach should be fair.

The Taoiseach: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  We will have had ten hours debate on Second Stage——

Deputy John Halligan: Information on John Halligan  Zoom on John Halligan  No, four hours.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  Bille nua.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett  Zoom on Seán Barrett  Deputies should allow people to speak.

The Taoiseach: Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  It is a requirement that the motion is taken to discuss amendments that were not part of the published Bill. While the motion refers to the four groups — the Government and the Opposition parties — the amendments on Committee Stage will be taken all day tomorrow and until 3.40 p.m on Thursday. They are taken in sequence and every Member is entitled to speak on those amendments, including Members of the Technical Group and Independent Members. The motion is a requirement in order to allow for the amendments tabled by the Minister to be discussed. The amendments can be discussed on Committee Stage in sequence and it is open to Members to contribute to the debate. That will take place all day tomorrow and until 3.40 p.m on Thursday.

Question put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 83; Níl, 35.

Information on Pat Breen  Zoom on Pat Breen  Breen, Pat. Information on Thomas P. Broughan  Zoom on Thomas P. Broughan  Broughan, Thomas P.
Information on Joan Burton  Zoom on Joan Burton  Burton, Joan. Information on Ray Butler  Zoom on Ray Butler  Butler, Ray.
Information on Jerry Buttimer  Zoom on Jerry Buttimer  Buttimer, Jerry. Information on Catherine Byrne  Zoom on Catherine Byrne  Byrne, Catherine.
Information on Eric J. Byrne  Zoom on Eric J. Byrne  Byrne, Eric. Information on Joe Carey  Zoom on Joe Carey  Carey, Joe.
Information on Paudie Coffey  Zoom on Paudie Coffey  Coffey, Paudie. Information on Michael Conaghan  Zoom on Michael Conaghan  Conaghan, Michael.
Information on Sean Conlan  Zoom on Sean Conlan  Conlan, Seán. Information on Paul Connaughton  Zoom on Paul Connaughton  Connaughton, Paul J.
Information on Ciara Conway  Zoom on Ciara Conway  Conway, Ciara. Information on Noel Coonan  Zoom on Noel Coonan  Coonan, Noel.
Information on Joe Costello  Zoom on Joe Costello  Costello, Joe. Information on Michael Creed  Zoom on Michael Creed  Creed, Michael.
Information on Jim Daly  Zoom on Jim Daly  Daly, Jim. Information on John Deasy  Zoom on John Deasy  Deasy, John.
Information on Jimmy Deenihan  Zoom on Jimmy Deenihan  Deenihan, Jimmy. Information on Patrick Deering  Zoom on Patrick Deering  Deering, Pat.
Information on Regina Doherty  Zoom on Regina Doherty  Doherty, Regina. Information on Robert Dowds  Zoom on Robert Dowds  Dowds, Robert.
Information on Andrew Doyle  Zoom on Andrew Doyle  Doyle, Andrew. Information on Bernard Durkan  Zoom on Bernard Durkan  Durkan, Bernard J.
Information on Damien English  Zoom on Damien English  English, Damien. Information on Alan Farrell  Zoom on Alan Farrell  Farrell, Alan.
Information on Frank Feighan  Zoom on Frank Feighan  Feighan, Frank. Information on Anne Ferris  Zoom on Anne Ferris  Ferris, Anne.
Information on Frances Fitzgerald  Zoom on Frances Fitzgerald  Fitzgerald, Frances. Information on Peter Fitzpatrick  Zoom on Peter Fitzpatrick  Fitzpatrick, Peter.
Information on Charles Flanagan  Zoom on Charles Flanagan  Flanagan, Charles. Information on Terence Flanagan  Zoom on Terence Flanagan  Flanagan, Terence.
Information on Eamon Gilmore  Zoom on Eamon Gilmore  Gilmore, Eamon. Information on Brendan Griffin  Zoom on Brendan Griffin  Griffin, Brendan.
Information on Noel Harrington  Zoom on Noel Harrington  Harrington, Noel. Information on Simon Harris  Zoom on Simon Harris  Harris, Simon.
Information on Brian Hayes  Zoom on Brian Hayes  Hayes, Brian. Information on Tom Hayes  Zoom on Tom Hayes  Hayes, Tom.
Information on Philip Hogan  Zoom on Philip Hogan  Hogan, Phil. Information on Brendan Howlin  Zoom on Brendan Howlin  Howlin, Brendan.
Information on Heather Humphreys  Zoom on Heather Humphreys  Humphreys, Heather. Information on Kevin Humphreys  Zoom on Kevin Humphreys  Humphreys, Kevin.
Information on Derek Keating  Zoom on Derek Keating  Keating, Derek. Information on Paul Kehoe  Zoom on Paul Kehoe  Kehoe, Paul.
Information on Enda Kenny  Zoom on Enda Kenny  Kenny, Enda. Information on Seán Kenny  Zoom on Seán Kenny  Kenny, Seán.
Information on Seán Kyne  Zoom on Seán Kyne  Kyne, Seán. Information on John Lyons  Zoom on John Lyons  Lyons, John.
Information on Michael McCarthy  Zoom on Michael McCarthy  McCarthy, Michael. Information on Shane McEntee  Zoom on Shane McEntee  McEntee, Shane.
Information on Nicky McFadden  Zoom on Nicky McFadden  McFadden, Nicky. Information on Joe McHugh  Zoom on Joe McHugh  McHugh, Joe.
Information on Tony McLoughlin  Zoom on Tony McLoughlin  McLoughlin, Tony. Information on Eamonn Maloney  Zoom on Eamonn Maloney  Maloney, Eamonn.
Information on Peter Mathews  Zoom on Peter Mathews  Mathews, Peter. Information on Olivia Mitchell  Zoom on Olivia Mitchell  Mitchell, Olivia.
Information on Mary Mitchell O'Connor  Zoom on Mary Mitchell O'Connor  Mitchell O’Connor, Mary. Information on Michelle Mulherin  Zoom on Michelle Mulherin  Mulherin, Michelle.
Information on Dara Murphy  Zoom on Dara Murphy  Murphy, Dara. Information on Eoghan Murphy  Zoom on Eoghan Murphy  Murphy, Eoghan.
Information on Gerald Nash  Zoom on Gerald Nash  Nash, Gerald. Information on Dan Neville  Zoom on Dan Neville  Neville, Dan.
Information on Derek Nolan  Zoom on Derek Nolan  Nolan, Derek. Information on Patrick Nulty  Zoom on Patrick Nulty  Nulty, Patrick.
Information on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Zoom on Aodhán Ó Ríordán  Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán. Information on Kieran O'Donnell  Zoom on Kieran O'Donnell  O’Donnell, Kieran.
Information on Patrick O'Donovan  Zoom on Patrick O'Donovan  O’Donovan, Patrick. Information on Fergus O'Dowd  Zoom on Fergus O'Dowd  O’Dowd, Fergus.
Information on John O'Mahony  Zoom on John O'Mahony  O’Mahony, John. Information on John Perry  Zoom on John Perry  Perry, John.
Information on Ann Phelan  Zoom on Ann Phelan  Phelan, Ann. Information on Ruairí Quinn  Zoom on Ruairí Quinn  Quinn, Ruairí.
Information on Pat Rabbitte  Zoom on Pat Rabbitte  Rabbitte, Pat. Information on Michael Ring  Zoom on Michael Ring  Ring, Michael.
Information on Brendan Ryan  Zoom on Brendan Ryan  Ryan, Brendan. Information on Arthur Spring  Zoom on Arthur Spring  Spring, Arthur.
Information on Emmet Stagg  Zoom on Emmet Stagg  Stagg, Emmet. Information on David Stanton  Zoom on David Stanton  Stanton, David.
Information on Billy Timmins  Zoom on Billy Timmins  Timmins, Billy. Information on Joanna Tuffy  Zoom on Joanna Tuffy  Tuffy, Joanna.
Information on Liam Twomey  Zoom on Liam Twomey  Twomey, Liam. Information on Brian Walsh  Zoom on Brian Walsh  Walsh, Brian.
Information on Alex White  Zoom on Alex White  White, Alex.  


Níl
Information on Gerry Adams  Zoom on Gerry Adams  Adams, Gerry. Information on Richard Boyd Barrett  Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett  Boyd Barrett, Richard.
Information on Dara Calleary  Zoom on Dara Calleary  Calleary, Dara. Information on Joan Collins  Zoom on Joan Collins  Collins, Joan.
Information on Michael Colreavy  Zoom on Michael Colreavy  Colreavy, Michael. Information on Stephen Donnelly  Zoom on Stephen Donnelly  Donnelly, Stephen S.
Information on Dessie Ellis  Zoom on Dessie Ellis  Ellis, Dessie. Information on Martin Ferris  Zoom on Martin Ferris  Ferris, Martin.
Information on Luke 'Ming' Flanagan  Zoom on Luke 'Ming' Flanagan  Flanagan, Luke ‘Ming’. Information on Seán Fleming  Zoom on Seán Fleming  Fleming, Sean.
Information on Tom Fleming  Zoom on Tom Fleming  Fleming, Tom. Information on John Halligan  Zoom on John Halligan  Halligan, John.
Information on Seamus Healy  Zoom on Seamus Healy  Healy, Seamus. Information on Michael Healy-Rae  Zoom on Michael Healy-Rae  Healy-Rae, Michael.
Information on Billy Kelleher  Zoom on Billy Kelleher  Kelleher, Billy. Information on Seamus Kirk  Zoom on Seamus Kirk  Kirk, Seamus.
Information on Michael Kitt  Zoom on Michael Kitt  Kitt, Michael P. Information on Pádraig MacLochlainn  Zoom on Pádraig MacLochlainn  Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
Information on Mary Lou McDonald  Zoom on Mary Lou McDonald  McDonald, Mary Lou. Information on Finian McGrath  Zoom on Finian McGrath  McGrath, Finian.
Information on Mattie McGrath  Zoom on Mattie McGrath  McGrath, Mattie. Information on John McGuinness  Zoom on John McGuinness  McGuinness, John.
Information on Sandra McLellan  Zoom on Sandra McLellan  McLellan, Sandra. Information on Micheál Martin  Zoom on Micheál Martin  Martin, Micheál.
Information on Michael Moynihan  Zoom on Michael Moynihan  Moynihan, Michael. Information on Catherine Murphy  Zoom on Catherine Murphy  Murphy, Catherine.
Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin  Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín. Information on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Zoom on Seán Ó Fearghaíl  Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
Information on Aengus O Snodaigh  Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh  Ó Snodaigh, Aengus. Information on Jonathan O'Brien  Zoom on Jonathan O'Brien  O’Brien, Jonathan.
Information on Brendan Smith  Zoom on Brendan Smith  Smith, Brendan. Information on Brian Stanley  Zoom on Brian Stanley  Stanley, Brian.
Information on Peadar Tóibín  Zoom on Peadar Tóibín  Tóibín, Peadar. Information on Robert Troy  Zoom on Robert Troy  Troy, Robert.
Information on Mick Wallace  Zoom on Mick Wallace  Wallace, Mick.  

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.

Question declared carried.


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