Childers, Erskine Hamilton

Wednesday, 8 July 1970

Seanad Eireann Debate
Vol. 68 No. 11

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I am advised that the words, “international body” do not require definition. It is well known what they mean. The fact is that the Minister for Health initially will make the decision as to whether an...More Button

On the Second Stage of the Bill I made it quite clear to the House that I was simply not prepared to accept that bodies being incorporated under this Bill were rather tied and would require the discip...More Button

I am talking about the Bill generally but what I am about to say covers the rest of the Bill and all the amendments put down by Senator Alexis FitzGerald.More Button

I am getting to this now. That is what I wanted to say first of all. We are not talking about commercial organisations or some huge international company who undertake health insurance of an interna...More Button

I do not really understand what all this distinction is about. I have not put anything about profits in my amendment because there could not be any profits. If there is revenue, there is expenditure ...More Button

That is the idea. If they had investments the dividends on those investments would obviously go to their deliberative functions. As they are only deliberative the invested money cannot be used for ...More Button

I do not think this would cover a commercial organisation which has spent some of its surplus income on deliberative matters. It is not the kind of organisation we are thinking of at all. Most of th...More Button

It is designed to leave out commercial activities.More Button

I cannot accept Senator Alexis FitzGerald's amendment. As I was saying, the Minister will have the first choice of incorporation of these bodies and then the Oireachtas. My own belief is that this is ...More Button

The Minister for Health must examine the constitution of any body requesting incorporation. Under section 5, a copy of the constitution must be maintained and made available to the Minister. All the ...More Button

I understand from my legal advisers that the word “deliberation” covers a great many different kinds of intellectual activity.More Button

I am advised this covers the intention behind the section.More Button

I do not think it is necessary. We would have half a dozen international organisations within the next ten years applying for incorporation here and I do not believe they are the kind of bodies who w...More Button

That would be unfortunate because they will not come here because the lawyers will get at them.More Button

I am sorry if the Constitution can cause trouble for the organisations. If they hear this they will not have it. That is unfortunate. Perhaps that will apply to every international organisation whic...More Button

I want to make it absolutely simple for them to come here. I want to make it clear I am not going to put any barriers whatever in their way except those in the Bill. I want to be perfectly frank abo...More Button

I will compromise. I will on Report Stage bring in an amendment saying that I will consult the Minister for Industry and Commerce before I make an order under this Bill without any reference to the C...More Button

This is simply to consult the Minister for Industry and Commerce in general before making an order under section 3.More Button

If by any chance there was an organisation of a most peculiar character where there were all kinds of activities within the organisation and the Minister for Industry and Commerce and his officers fel...More Button

Yes. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.More Button

Section 45 (1) (x) states that the Minister for Lands could make the necessary order in regard to land being purchased outside a city or town which comes under the Act in question. I do not think it ...More Button

I am going to read what I have written down here which comes from the legal officers because I am not skilled in the question of the incorporation of bodies from one state to another. The legal advic...More Button

Before the Senator goes any further I should say that I have accepted the amendment in a different form because it is a useful amendment. I have been told the best way to express it is as follows: In...More Button

One which it is proposed to introduce with the leave of the House and slightly to alter the Senator's amendment.More Button

I must say definitely I do not propose to accept any of these amendments which seem to demand of the body a conformity with all sorts of rules. I have already explained that I think that section 5 an...More Button

I understand that we can require that the constitution be supplied to us in either one or both of our official languages. I honestly do not think this amendment is necessary.More Button

I will consider it on Report Stage. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. NEW SECTION.More Button

I do not propose to accept these or any other similar amendments. I have been advised by by legal officers that I should keep very clear of all matters relating to ultra vires that have been expresse...More Button

I can insist that a body should have a seal.More Button

I am instructed by my advisers that this is only a draft constitution which can be amended to conform with the kind of organisation which is likely to be established here. In deference to Senator Fitz...More Button

We do not regard this amendment as necessary.More Button

We are not talking about the South Sea bubble. I am becoming impatient with the Senator. These are perfectly harmless, deliberative organisations.More Button

At this moment the Senator and I part company. Any kind of understanding is finished. If the Senator is going to start talking about the South Sea bubble in relation to international organisations o...More Button

The Minister is the registrar under the Ministers and Secretaries Act.More Button

If he had 1,000 companies to deal with that would be a different thing.More Button

I have but I do not know why I did. After all this, I feel I should not have done so.More Button

All the information regarding this will come under section 6.More Button

There is this dreadful theory of the collapse of the State and some Minister in the Government incapable of doing things correctly.More Button

The basis of the Fine Gael argument is that after 30 years Ministers cannot be trusted to do things properly. That is the whole argument this afternoon.More Button

It might be any Government. If we start to enact legislation on the basis that some future Minister would do something and would allow some resolution to go through which would cause what is suggested...More Button

I am sorry.More Button

I do not propose to accept this amendment. There are no difficulties about the inspection of documents. The documents which are held by the Minister as registrar for the company can be inspected.More Button

I do not propose to accept the amendment. Any body incorporated under this Bill will be the kind of body with the kind of solicitor who will have no objection to accepting service. The idea that the...More Button

I am absolutely serious.More Button

The Mass Radiography Board and the National Rehabilitation Board have no sections in the orders establishing them of the kind suggested by the Senator. They have none whatever and they seem to have s...More Button

Perhaps the international organisation would get to know this. No doubt they would change the constitution if they could not get a solicitor to help them.More Button

There are many bodies established by Ministers at different times of different governments.More Button

There were bodies which were initiated and incorporated but not by any Minister at all.More Button

They seem to have survived.More Button

In reply to the Senator, it is intended to ask the body incorporated under this Bill to supply us with an annual duly audited account. We will make it a condition that they supply us with an annual au...More Button

This is a drafting section. The subsection relates to the making of the revoking order. I cannot explain it any other way.More Button

Subsection (3) must be complied with. This subsection endeavours to make more emphatic what is in subsection (2). Question put and agreed to. NEW SECTION.More Button

I do not think it is necessary at all. I do not think this amendment is necessary for the small number of companies which will be incorporated under this Bill. People will know that the Minister for...More Button

I will look at this amendment between now and the Report Stage since the Senator seems to suggest it may be very necessary. I am advised it is not but I will look at the position. Amendment, by leave...More Button

I do not think this is necessary at all. It is inconceivable that any Minister in this country would allow the accounts of a body incorporated under this Bill to be audited by any other than professi...More Button

If we have to protect ourselves against this kind of thing we will find it impossible. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. SECTION 7. Government amendment No. 19: In page 3, subsection (1) (a), line 35, t...More Button

This is just a technical amendment substituting a comma for “and”.More Button

I understand that Ministers have under other statutes transferred property and taken steps of a kind that could be a power to revoke an order under this Bill and I am not aware of there ever having be...More Button

There is no need for anything of this kind. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. NEW SECTION.More Button

I do not think this provision is required. There are other statutory instruments where this requirement is not indicated and I do not see why we should have it in this particular case.More Button

Yes.More Button

I do not think the activities of such a body are the kind which would be covered by the amendment.More Button

I have been advised that it is not necessary for this kind of body which is going to be incorporated.More Button

I will look into it.More Button

The Minister, if he used his powers properly, would adopt the principles implied in the sections in the Companies Act referred to in this amendment. I will look into the matter between now and the Re...More Button

I would not mind accepting the Senator's amendment in a slightly different form. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. NEW SECTION.More Button

We do not intend to charge fees. Therefore, I cannot accept the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. NEW SECTION.More Button

I have been advised that it would be reasonable to argue that the general application of the law should be adequate to deal with the sort of situation the Senator is trying to cover by this amendment.More Button

I am not accepting this amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Section 10 agreed to. Title agreed to.More Button


Last Updated: 15/09/2010 06:10:39 First Page Previous Page Page of 6 Next Page Last Page