McDowell, DerekThursday, 26 February 2004 |
Seanad Eireann Debate
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Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage.
I note the definition of “public servant” excludes five positions, namely the President, a member of the Judiciary, the Master of the High Court, a taxing master or a county registrar. Why have these ...
Can the Minister of State say where that is set out?
Which ones are not included?
Yes.
How do we know which ones are not stated there?
I am not trying to make arcane points about the law but I raised this matter because it seems that the basic statement, in so far as there is one, is that the retirement age is not 65 or that it could...
Specific bodies such as the fire brigades and so on seem to be dealt with by separate legislation but the basic statement is contained in the 1980 regulations. Is that correct?
Why did the Minister of State choose to use primary legislation to amend the regulations? It seems odd that the regulations would have amended primary Acts in the first place but that being the case, ...
I am not doing that.
We decided to deal with a number of queries on section 1, which relate to particular definitions, together. Perhaps we should have dealt with them discretely. However, we are taking them together as t...
We could happily open a Pandora’s box in this area. I seek more information on the point I mentioned concerning the definition of a public servant. What is the status of the staff of the Houses of the...
Does this include Members’ secretaries etc.?
I ask the Minister to check this between now and Report Stage. There is an increased difficulty because of the legislation passed last year dealing with fixed-term contracts and the need to roll those...
That is correct.
That means these people are not covered by this legislation.
I will not labour the point, but it would be interesting to obtain some clarity before we come to Report Stage, or perhaps in the other House. To elaborate on the point I made earlier, under the Prote...
Once they become established?
Are they considered new entrants if they become established after 1 April?
If they are not public servants now and they are becoming public servants——
I wish to ask a question related to the amendment. This subsection appears to deal with situations where people are working for a public service body listed in the Schedule and moving into the Civil S...
Is there an implied or actual contract?
I endorse the point made by Senators Browne and O’Toole. It does not matter much whether an individual decides to stay in the teaching profession or not. The fact is that when they entered teacher tra...
I will raise it under the section. The point at issue with this amendment is the preservation of the expectation of people in the public service who are in a course of training. I wanted to ask about ...
I am aware of that. However, we must deal with this by relation to the provision for gardaí. That is where this arises.
We have been debating the issue already. The Minister of State has justified this provision on the basis that a provision has been made for gardaí. We must relate it to other professions and other cou...
I will raise it again in a few moments.
If the issue of nurses had been raised in this regard, no doubt the Minister of State would have been allowed to respond on that basis.
I do not want to delay matters so I will save the issue of nurses for a few moments. I wish to ask the Minister of State about the issue to which he referred, which the Acting Chairman deemed to be in...
I do not understand what the phrase “implied contract” means. Is a contract in place beforehand?
Is it in writing?
Amendment put.
Voted Yes
Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed).
This is a very important amendment. What is being done in the Bill contrasts with Government and ministerial policy as stated over a number of years. Under the strategic management initiative, the Gov...
There are a number of technical matters in section 2 that should be clarified by the Minister of State. Section 2(4)(II), discussed earlier, deals with people returning to the public service after a b...
That is not clear from the way the subsections are drafted. I appreciate that is the intention but subsection (6) deals with public servants and the public service includes Oireachtas Members.
I am happy to accept that. The Minister of State did not deal with my first point, probably because I did not put it very clearly. I have had an opportunity to look at it again.
I did not express myself clearly. Perhaps I could try again. The relevant parts are set out in section 2(4)(a). It states: “[Where] a person duly receives a written offer of appointment as a public se...
It does not get any easier.
If not why not?
Was the Senator not a public servant all along?
When I broached the issue of nurses earlier in the debate, the Acting Chairman felt I was out of order. It could be usefully explored in this context. It is common practice, particularly outside Dubli...
I cannot allow that comment to go without some sort of rebuttal. The State has a dual role. We must consider this matter from the point of view of the employers. This proposal would unilaterally chang...
The Minister of State is wasted in this job.
I wish to raise a point which is a little less arcane than some of the points we discussed earlier. This section gives a facility to people to remain at work beyond the age of 65 years if they choose ...
I would like clarification on a point which relates to drafting as much as to anything else. Can the Minister of State clarify whether, subject to what is in the section, it is the option of the indiv...
The legislation does not make it crystal clear that a garda may choose to leave at 55 years of age. As written, the legislation would allow the commissioner to require the member to continue until he ...
It is not clear that the option is the garda’s and not the commissioner’s.
Where do we stand with this section? In effect this is an enabling section in so far as it enables the Minister for Defence to produce a scheme for the PDF. I am not sure that this has already been pu...
I endorse what others said. Those of us trying to make this argument are in some difficulty. The case is incontrovertible that there are special circumstances affecting teachers and politicians. These...
Amendment put.
Voted Yes
Amendment put.
Voted Yes
Subsection (2) deals with the Permanent Defence Force. However, when discussing section 8 of the Bill the Minister of State indicated that arrangements for the Defence Forces were still under negotiat...
The Minister of State has been helpful in clarifying the matter. However, it seems remarkable that the Bill will contain a provision which will, in effect, negate its impact. The purpose of the Bill i...
This covers the situation where someone is working beyond 65 and whether those years are taken into account for reckoning service. Is that a correct estimate? It brings into play the related situation...
Does that mean the Minister of State has made no decision on the commission’s recommendations?
It would be useful, and we should provide in the section that there should be consultation with any trade union of which the individual is a member, rather than effectively leaving the decision to man...
The Bill does not say that.
Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages.
I join other Senators in thanking the Minister of State for the way in which he dealt with the Bill today. I appreciate it can be difficult to come into either House with what I expect are overriding ...
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